Any news on this metro incident?

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OxtedL

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That's a surprisingly positive headline for a British news article. Well done the BBC.

Shame some idiots had to ruin it, but hey, you know sometimes you just get an uncontrollable urge to ransack rail vehicles...
 

Anon Mouse

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Its always the same on Derby day.

However I do think it was a bit irresponsible Nexus showing the exact arrival time at Newcastle Central on the outward journey and exact departure time from Newcastle on the return on their website.

I was well away from the match due to work commitments but after work (well after the end of the match) the idiots seemed to still be about, and a casualty of too much ale was collapased in his own pee at Gateshead Stadium.

Yes, that was a balanced bit of reporting it does make a refreshing change. No doubt a handful of isolated incidents more related to excessive alcohol consumption than the football will make the news in some of the papers tomorow as "football hooligans in mass riot" or something similar!
 

Jonny

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Well, that's alcohol plus tribalism. The trouble is that when alcohol kicks in, good people do bad things that they would never conside doing, let alone do while sober. The only solution is to have 'dry' (no alcohol) matches and dry surrounds, dry trains and/or even 10-11am kick-offs.

A mere 18 arrests related to a match is a result though. People may call Northumbria Police's response to Sunderland fans harsh, I call it harsh but necessary.
 

transmanche

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However I do think it was a bit irresponsible Nexus showing the exact arrival time at Newcastle Central on the outward journey and exact departure time from Newcastle on the return on their website.
I'm a bit confused. Why is it irresponsible for a PTE to give timetable information?

The only solution is to have 'dry' (no alcohol) matches and dry surrounds, dry trains and/or even 10-11am kick-offs.
All Metro stations and trains are 'dry' - and have been for as long as I remember.

Over 52,500 people will have attended the match today. Many thousands more will have been watching the match in pubs or clubs in Newcastle and Sunderland city centres. With that many people on the streets, then with or without alcohol being involved, I'd say that just 18 arrests is pretty good.
 

Anon Mouse

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I'm a bit confused. Why is it irresponsible for a PTE to give timetable information?

All Metro stations and trains are 'dry' - and have been for as long as I remember.

Over 52,500 people will have attended the match today. Many thousands more will have been watching the match in pubs or clubs in Newcastle and Sunderland city centres. With that many people on the streets, then with or without alcohol being involved, I'd say that just 18 arrests is pretty good.
It seems that there should have been more arrests than there was from what I have heard, obviously its safer for the Police to ignore stuff and get fans away from the ground.

The FOOTEX was not a normal train, it was a train full of football fans off to their hated rivals, many of whom will have been 'risk' supporters. As the Newcastle fans knew what time it arrived at Newcastle it would have been easier for them to plan trouble. I don't think the exact time of arrival and departure of return to have been published the way it was.

Yes all Metro stations and trains are dry, but just because alcohol is banned on the metro does not mean there would have been nobody consuming alcohol and besides a dry train for 20 mins is not as much use as a dry train for 3 hours.
 

transmanche

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The FOOTEX was not a normal train, it was a train full of football fans off to their hated rivals, many of whom will have been 'risk' supporters.
Every Metro from Sunderland this morning would have had many "football fans off to their hated rivals" on board. In the absence of any Northern services today, running a one-off non-stop Metro seems a sensible thing to do.

As the Newcastle fans knew what time it arrived at Newcastle it would have been easier for them to plan trouble. I don't think the exact time of arrival and departure of return to have been published the way it was.
"There will be a special non-stop Metro service for Sunderland fans leaving from Sunderland station at 10.13am on Sunday morning. This train will travel direct to Newcastle Central Station without stopping. Fans will be met by police on arrival."​

The arrival time was not shown on the Nexus website. Only the departure time from Sunderland was shown - and to be honest, they had to show that so people knew what time to be there in order to catch it!

In effect, this service was a replacement for the regular 10:28 Northern service, which didn't run today.
 

Yew

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sometimes you just get an uncontrollable urge to ransack rail vehicles...
So you've been on a pacer then?

I think that people posting on here could find the recent football hooliganism thread useful, as currently I predict it going down similar lines...
 

Anon Mouse

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Every Metro from Sunderland this morning would have had many "football fans off to their hated rivals" on board. In the absence of any Northern services today, running a one-off non-stop Metro seems a sensible thing to do.



"There will be a special non-stop Metro service for Sunderland fans leaving from Sunderland station at 10.13am on Sunday morning. This train will travel direct to Newcastle Central Station without stopping. Fans will be met by police on arrival."​

The arrival time was not shown on the Nexus website. Only the departure time from Sunderland was shown - and to be honest, they had to show that so people knew what time to be there in order to catch it!

In effect, this service was a replacement for the regular 10:28 Northern service, which didn't run today.
I never said it was not a sensible thing to do as I agree that a special should have been ran. Yesterday morning the timings were shown on the Nexus website under a heading about travel to the match which showed the departure from Sunderland and arrival at Newcastle, ditto for the return. Of course the departure time needed to be shown but not the arrival. For the return journey there would have been no need to advertise the departure as the away fans were escorted to Newcastle station. We (Sunderland) only got 2,900 tickets and 99% of them used the free coaches supplied by SAFC with only 1% on the train and travelling from elsewhere so, no every metro would not have been full of Sunderland fans. If the trains would have been running a special Northern train (as usual) would have ran which is a lot easier to poilce as Newcastle station entrance and the car park entrance get sealed off and its easier to get fans to and from the main station as opposed to the rabbit warren that is the Metro station.

Derby Day is not a normal matchday, and nothing like what may be experienced elsewhere and arrangements need to be made to prevent mass disorder which used to happen and still does abet in a much smaller way now.
 

transmanche

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Every Metro from Sunderland this morning would have had many "football fans off to their hated rivals" on board. In the absence of any Northern services today, running a one-off non-stop Metro seems a sensible thing to do.
We (Sunderland) only got 2,900 tickets and 99% of them used the free coaches supplied by SAFC with only 1% on the train and travelling from elsewhere so, no every metro would not have been full of Sunderland fans.
Please don't misrepresent what I said. There's a big difference between every Metro carrying "many" football fans and all of them being "full of Sunderland fans".

Irrespective of whether the arrival time was shown on the website (and it wasn't shown in the text that I quoted earlier from the Derby Day travel page on the Nexus website) it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess the arrival time - should any home fans have wanted to create trouble.

However, AFAIU, that didn't happen. And the damage to the Metro train was caused by away fans - which could have happened on a Northern service, or indeed even one of the special buses.
 

142094

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From what I've heard a few windows were put out and the Passenger emergency brake applied a few times, delaying other services. Not sure which car was involved but couldn't see a damaged one at the depot today so probably in for immediate repairs.
 

Anon Mouse

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apprently people were peeing on the floor as well. The damage must not have been as extensive as I first thought as the repair bill according to Nexus will be in the hundreds of pounds so I am guessing it was not as bad as the 142(?) that was trashed before Boro away.

Still bad news as this kind of unacceptable behaviour is the kind of thing that continuies the early kick off times, heavy handed policing and limited ticket allocations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=679614

Seems there was quite a few 'minor' problems relating to the metro service yesterday with problems on two Metro's not just one.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
 
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142094

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Not sure how much to believe on there - for example it is not BTPs decision to decide on if a train stops at every station or goes straight through.
 

Anon Mouse

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Not sure how much to believe on there - for example it is not BTPs decision to decide on if a train stops at every station or goes straight through.
er, yes but remember most people on that board are not enthusuasts or rail staff and won't know how trains operate and some of the comments relating to the BTP 'telling the driver not to stop' are a little bit amusing (I would have imagined the BTP liaised with Metro Control who would of then radioed the driver to tell him the train wont be stopping at subsequent stations which probably was the best decision. As its a fans forum, it is rather belivable (I know a few lads off there) if you take away the Trolls and Keyboard Warriors. This time of forum will usually be more reliable than the Football Clubs and Police sites which are often sugared up.
 

142094

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er, yes but remember most people on that board are not enthusuasts or rail staff and won't know how trains operate and some of the comments relating to the BTP 'telling the driver not to stop' are a little bit amusing (I would have imagined the BTP liaised with Metro Control who would of then radioed the driver to tell him the train wont be stopping at subsequent stations which probably was the best decision. As its a fans forum, it is rather belivable (I know a few lads off there) if you take away the Trolls and Keyboard Warriors. This time of forum will usually be more reliable than the Football Clubs and Police sites which are often sugared up.
Aye, however it is disappointing that BTP were suggesting that the train was to run non-stop - and also stopping people from catching the empty Metro at Sunderland.
 

Anon Mouse

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Aye, however it is disappointing that BTP were suggesting that the train was to run non-stop - and also stopping people from catching the empty Metro at Sunderland.
Yep, unforunatly the Police don't seem to regard Football Fans as Human Beings (as discussed on another thread relating to Sunderland fans!) and seem to sometimes revell in the chaos. Of course lack of information and a handful of idiots don't help matters. Quite why somebody would want to get there bits out and urinate on the floor of a full and standing Metro I don't know, at least there is CCTV in the Metro so the trouble makers will probably be identified!

To be fair, running the Metro non-stop from Pelaw was probably the safest thing to do considering the Metro was full of Sunderland fans stopping in staunch NUFC teritorry. I suspect that if there was not engineering work at Heworth on Network Rail it would have been easier to deal with the fans by using the usual tactic of having a 4 or 6 car 142 formation into platform 1 at a tempoarily closed Central Station than running a 2 car Metro special into a very busy Metro station with 3 exits and tunnels.
 

142094

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Still, BTP shouldn't be making the decision or even suggesting it - they will probably not have any idea of the situation further down the line and what it is like at other stations (plus the fact that there could well have been people on the train wanting to get off at intermediate stops).

I've seen BTP get 'involved' with running the railway before at other stations on a match day and have been less than impressed.
 

Anon Mouse

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Still, BTP shouldn't be making the decision or even suggesting it - they will probably not have any idea of the situation further down the line and what it is like at other stations (plus the fact that there could well have been people on the train wanting to get off at intermediate stops).

I've seen BTP get 'involved' with running the railway before at other stations on a match day and have been less than impressed.
Thats true, but if there were disturbances at Brockley Whinns and Fellgate where theres a 50/50 split of NUFC & SAFC fans, it could have got really nasty at staunce NUFC territory of Felling, Gateshead Stadium and Gateshead. The hatred between the two teams runs deep, I would have imagined most people for intermediate stops would not have boarded the train in question. Again, The Derby is not a 'normal' fixture and it attracts a large minority of knuckle dragging idiots. Remember also in addition to the football fans a large number of people off to watch it in the pub and chavs out to wind people up would cause even more problems....
 

142094

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Unfortunately that would no doubt happen even if a select number of trains did indeed run fast when not advertised. TBH if the free buses had left/arrived at a reasonable time then there no doubt would have been less problems. I also fail to see why Northern were not running (or at least advertising) any rail replacement buses between Sunderland and Newcastle on Sunday, which could have reduced the loadings on the Metro as well.

The problem with trying to run a train fast is that no doubt it will get stuck behind a stopping service and will cause problems further up the track. Having seen how long it takes to get a station such as Central clear for the next Metro coming in, having services run non-stop would not have made a difference.
 

Anon Mouse

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Unfortunately that would no doubt happen even if a select number of trains did indeed run fast when not advertised. TBH if the free buses had left/arrived at a reasonable time then there no doubt would have been less problems. I also fail to see why Northern were not running (or at least advertising) any rail replacement buses between Sunderland and Newcastle on Sunday, which could have reduced the loadings on the Metro as well.

The problem with trying to run a train fast is that no doubt it will get stuck behind a stopping service and will cause problems further up the track. Having seen how long it takes to get a station such as Central clear for the next Metro coming in, having services run non-stop would not have made a difference.
Remember it was a Sunday so there is a bit more space between trains, but still a Metro system is not the best enviroment to run non-stop services. At least when Northern run a special it fits between 1 line of the Metro where the spacing between stations is quite long and then from Pelaw it runs on a seperate line and would not run slow or stop at any station that would be full of NUFC fans. Yes it gets a bit messy at Newcastle Station, but the station gets locked and sealed off while the away fans get taken off and escorted to the ground and it tends to keep the baying mob at bay for a while.

Hopefully next season there will be no engineering work :D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Aye, I noticed a lack of Northern replacement buses last week too, I suppose the thinking would have been that as the Metro runs every 15mins or so there is no need, maybe loadings on their replacement buses in the past have been too low? As a side note, if Chiltern are not running trains between Marylebone and Amersham do they put a replacement bus on or direct people onto the tube?
 

Kryten2340

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Thats true, but if there were disturbances at Brockley Whinns and Fellgate where theres a 50/50 split of NUFC & SAFC fans, it could have got really nasty at staunce NUFC territory of Felling, Gateshead Stadium and Gateshead. The hatred between the two teams runs deep, I would have imagined most people for intermediate stops would not have boarded the train in question. Again, The Derby is not a 'normal' fixture and it attracts a large minority of knuckle dragging idiots. Remember also in addition to the football fans a large number of people off to watch it in the pub and chavs out to wind people up would cause even more problems....
If you ask me Northern should have planned their maintenance for a different day and ran non-stop services between Newcastle and Sunderland and there should have been no metro service between Pelaw and Sunderland for the very reason you have said in your post I've quoted. Whilst this may inconvenience the non-football passenger it would be the safest thing to do. I read on a Sunderland forum how two Newcastle fans tried to board at Fellgate and were scared off by the amount of abuse they got from Sunderland fans.
 

Anon Mouse

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If you ask me Northern should have planned their maintenance for a different day and ran non-stop services between Newcastle and Sunderland and there should have been no metro service between Pelaw and Sunderland for the very reason you have said in your post I've quoted. Whilst this may inconvenience the non-football passenger it would be the safest thing to do. I read on a Sunderland forum how two Newcastle fans tried to board at Fellgate and were scared off by the amount of abuse they got from Sunderland fans.
It was Network Rail doing maintaince which I would imagine would have been penciled in when the match was scheduled to be played on a Saturday. In previous years both trains and metros have ran, only the Northern service plus specials have ran with not as much disruption. I don't agree with metros not running between Sunderland and Pelaw as effective policing should prevent large numbers of away fans getting on all stations metros and trying to get the away fans as much as possible onto the Northern train and or specials as already stated its easier to police by sealing off Newcastle station for a short while. (which was a reaction after a 142 got damaged and hooligans were racing all over the track and getting clobbered by OTT policing)
 

Essexman

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13 of the 18 arrests 'alcohol related'. So nothing to do with football. As seen last night on BBC 'Tube' programme, drunk passengers cause huge problems & even deaths but police don't arrest them, yet football fans are arrested and banned.
 

Anon Mouse

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13 of the 18 arrests 'alcohol related'. So nothing to do with football. As seen last night on BBC 'Tube' programme, drunk passengers cause huge problems & even deaths but police don't arrest them, yet football fans are arrested and banned.
round of applause to that man. However if the Police had the ability to arrest every person who broke the law travelling to The Sports Direct Arena there would have been a hell of a lot more arrests. Derby day is like no other fixture as it attracts all the nutters, who get drunk, drag their knuckles and cause aggro. Even if the match kicked off at 0800, the disorder would still happen. Incidently Sunderland fans were reportedly well behaved in The Sports Direct Arena according to the Barcodes and (as usual) most of the aggro in Newcastle would have been caused by drunk Chavs who never even went to the match (coins, bottles & rocks thrown at Sunderland fans being escorted to ground). It happens every time, little scroates hanging around itching for a fight at both The Sports Direct Arena and The Stadium of Light.
 
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