Any records of Class 31's diagrammed in multiple on passenger workings?

[GS250]

Hi All

From what I can recall, the vast majority of class 31 hauled passenger workings were usually lighter loads diagrammed for one loco. Every so often, a solo 31 would find itself on a heavier long distance Intercity service when the usual type 4 wasn't available. I do recall pair's of 31's operating on SW summer cross country services in the late 80s. Presume they were diagrammed on these services? Also recall seeing a pair on a Paddington - Birmingham via High Wycombe although surely a replacement to the usual 47 or 50?

How did a pair perform relative to the average type 4?

Cheers.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi All

From what I can recall, the vast majority of class 31 hauled passenger workings were usually lighter loads diagrammed for one loco. Every so often, a solo 31 would find itself on a heavier long distance Intercity service when the usual type 4 wasn't available. I do recall pair's of 31's operating on SW summer cross country services in the late 80s. Presume they were diagrammed on these services? Also recall seeing a pair on a Paddington - Birmingham via High Wycombe although surely a replacement to the usual 47 or 50?

How did a pair perform relative to the average type 4?

Cheers.

A thread over on rmweb suggested even a pair underperformed on the summer Sats Liverpool/Manchester-the West Country workings using WCML sets.

I imagine because of the large weight of two locos only giving power roughly equal to a 47 meant a still lower power-to-weight ratio. I believe a 31/4 is ~113 tonnes, that's not all that less than a 47/4 (117 tonnes) or even a long-range fuel tank one at ~120 tonnes.

 

[Magdalia]

A brief and incomplete history of Brush Type 2s/class 31s in passenger traffic.

When they were new very few examples apart from some excursions from the Sheffield area to Blackpool and Scarborough. Very heavy trains would be worked by single locos, especially in East Anglia.

Pairs start to appear more frequently on the ECML in the early 1970s, notably on the summer Saturday Skegness to Kings Cross, then spreading to the Peterborough commuter trains and some overnight services. The WR also started to use pairs on heavier Oxford commuter trains.

In the 1980s lots, especially on summer Saturdays.

When properly maintained and prepared they worked very well. On the GN commuters a pair of class 31s on load 8 would do 75 mph at Potters Bar, compared with 80 mph for a class 47, and would knock spots off a class 40 at about 62 mph. I only had a class 46 on a GN commuter once, so its 72 mph may not be representative.

 

[Cowley]

A brief and incomplete history of Brush Type 2s/class 31s in passenger traffic.

When they were new very few examples apart from some excursions from the Sheffield area to Blackpool and Scarborough. Very heavy trains would be worked by single locos, especially in East Anglia.

Pairs start to appear more frequently on the ECML in the early 1970s, notably on the summer Saturday Skegness to Kings Cross, then spreading to the Peterborough commuter trains and some overnight services. The WR also started to use pairs on heavier Oxford commuter trains.

In the 1980s lots, especially on summer Saturdays.

When properly maintained and prepared they worked very well. On the GN commuters a pair of class 31s on load 8 would do 75 mph at Potters Bar, compared with 80 mph for a class 47, and would knock spots off a class 40 at about 62 mph. I only had a class 46 on a GN commuter once, so its 72 mph may not be representative.

I used to quite enjoy a bash on the pairs of 31s with the Mk3 sets down to Paignton in the 1980s. They were fun and made a good bit of noise climbing out of Paignton on a long rake of coaches on the return trip.

From what I remember part of the problem was that the second (train) loco could get rather hot and bothered when running at high speeds in the summer heat due to a lack of decent air flow through the cooler group?

 

[Beebman]

On two occasions on the late 80s when I was commuting between Twyford and Paddington I had a pair of 31s vice 47 or 50 (one up service and one down). However on at least three occasions there was just a single one which struggled with the usual rake of Mk1/2s (I remember on one occasion the conductor announcing that arrival at PAD would be a few minutes late "because they've given us a Parcels locomotive").

 

[Falcon1200]

31116 and 31227 worked Rotherwood-Lincoln and return, Tuesday 21st April 1981, the Easter Tommy Railtour, although of course this was a one-off ! AS Magdalia says pairs also sometimes appeared out of Paddington, and the Sunday trains below would appear to have been booked workings, and on Summer resort trains. For example:
31282 and 31283 1237 Skegness-Leicester, Saturday 28th May 1983
31138 and 31311 1837 Skegness-Burton, Monday 30th May 1983
31179 and 31305 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 26th June 1983
31257 and 31273 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 3rd July 1983
31188 and 31319 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 7th August 1983

 

[xotGD]

I had a pair of 31s on a Derby - Skeg on a Bank Holiday Monday.

Much to my disgust, as I was anticipating a pair of 20s.

 

[Gloster]

In the early 1980s they used to appear on Paddington-Devon trains on summer Saturdays: they didn’t normally go over the banks to Plymouth and Cornwall, although there may have been odd occasions when they did. I have a feeling that the Barnstaple was the only diagrammed 2x31 (I am not sure if they both went through to Barnstaple), but it was by no means rare for them to appear on lunchtime/early afternoon departures from London for Paignton, probably because by then Old Oak hadn’t got anything else to turn out if they had had a couple of failures.

 

[Strathclyder]

Although not in the BR era and not at all regularly diagrammed, a pair of 31/4s (465/466) managed to drop onto Virgin XC's 1O38 09:10 Edinburgh - Bournemouth at Birmingham New St on 27th June 1998, which resulted in them handling the return working from Bournemouth as far as New St (1M81 18:14 to Manchester Piccadilly). Martin Loader (hondawanderer) was on hand to catch the latter at Cholsey.

31465 & 31466 Cholsey 27 June 1998

www.hondawanderer.com

Off-topic, but it's worth mentioning here is the fact that the sole-surviving Class 56 in Railfreight Grey with Red Stripe livery (56019) had handled the same workings the previous week, something Mr. Loader was also on hand to catch.

56019 Culham 20 June 1998

www.hondawanderer.com

 

[47421]

the excellent Leighton Logs site https://leightonlists.com/1b09-1815-euston-northampton-remembered/ notes the following:

1N25 [1815 Euston Northampton] 31308/31294 throughout 180588. Massive working. 31308/294 had worked into Euston on an earlier failure. Such was the desperate power shortage the 31’s worked 1N25 throughout! Only 12 late at MK too.

 

[Magdalia]

31179 and 31305 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 26th June 1983
31257 and 31273 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 3rd July 1983
31188 and 31319 1548 Paddington-Manchester, Sunday 7th August 1983

This was booked a class 50 but got a pair of class 31s most Sundays in summer 1983. Best was 31102 and 31134 on 25 September 1983 with the train diverted from Oxford to Coventry via Bletchley Flyover and Northampton.

I have a feeling that the Barnstaple was the only diagrammed 2x31 (I am not sure if they both went through to Barnstaple), but it was by no means rare for them to appear on lunchtime/early afternoon departures from London for Paignton, probably because by then Old Oak hadn’t got anything else to turn out if they had had a couple of failures.

The Barnstaple was booked class 31 from 1973 to 1976 but, because of restricted run round at Barnstaple, was only load 7 and was booked a single loco.

I used to quite enjoy a bash on the pairs of 31s with the Mk3 sets down to Paignton in the 1980s. They were fun and made a good bit of noise climbing out of Paignton on a long rake of coaches on the return trip.

From what I remember part of the problem was that the second (train) loco could get rather hot and bothered when running at high speeds in the summer heat due to a lack of decent air flow through the cooler group?

When this happened it was usually the leading loco that overheated, and with number 1 end leading. Part of good preparation was putting the number 1 ends together in the middle of the pair, so that number 2 end was leading in both directions.

"because they've given us a Parcels locomotive").

After HSTs were introduced, the WR introduced a number of "premium parcels" trains, with only 3 or 4 vans, running fast between the HSTs and hauled by class 31s.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I used to quite enjoy a bash on the pairs of 31s with the Mk3 sets down to Paignton in the 1980s. They were fun and made a good bit of noise climbing out of Paignton on a long rake of coaches on the return trip.

From what I remember part of the problem was that the second (train) loco could get rather hot and bothered when running at high speeds in the summer heat due to a lack of decent air flow through the cooler group?

Wasn’t that something like Milton Keynes to Paignton and back with a Pullman set?

 

[Cowley]

Wasn’t that something like Milton Keynes to Paignton and back with a Pullman set?

Yes I think it might have been?

When this happened it was usually the leading loco that overheated, and with number 1 end leading. Part of good preparation was putting the number 1 ends together in the middle of the pair, so that number 2 end was leading in both directions.

Thanks for the extra details @Magdalia. Very interesting.

 

[alistairlees]

The 07.38 Hull to Carlisle, and 16.35 return, was booked a pair of 31/4s in the mid 1980s.

 

[Gloster]

Possibly my memory is at fault, but when I was down there in the early 1980s my recollection is that on the Paddington-Exeter leg it was supposed to be 2x31. I have an even vaguer recollection of the return on one occasion being a single 31, which was not happy on the gradient. I was wondering if I was going to have to deal with a failure: not a simple job at any time and even worse when just about every loco is in use and there is a queue of trains behind.

 

[Falcon1200]

This was booked a class 50 but got a pair of class 31s most Sundays in summer 1983. Best was 31102 and 31134 on 25 September 1983 with the train diverted from Oxford to Coventry via Bletchley Flyover and Northampton.

Checking my records again..... I was on that train ! Just from Reading to Oxford. Thanks for the info.

 

[billio]

I commuted from Oxford in the early 80's and can remember pairs of 31's being used on the 8am (or there abouts) Hereford - Paddington train. One day I remember there were 3 of them triple-heading the train. On another morning two pulled into Oxford with the leading locomotive smoking heavily and promptly setting on fire in the station.

 

[GS250]

the excellent Leighton Logs site https://leightonlists.com/1b09-1815-euston-northampton-remembered/ notes the following:

1N25 [1815 Euston Northampton] 31308/31294 throughout 180588. Massive working. 31308/294 had worked into Euston on an earlier failure. Such was the desperate power shortage the 31’s worked 1N25 throughout! Only 12 late at MK too.

Some of those workings!!

I'd be interested to know what balancing speed that pair of 31s reached on the long and steady climb to Tring. Would have been 12-13 bogies so guess 75mph?

I know an AL5 could just about hit the magic ton with a heavy load but obviously has the advantage of superior acceleration. An AL6 of course would be slowly running it's tap changer down probably around Hatch End.

 

[edwin_m]

Recall a pair of 31s on an early mk2 set on the Cambrian in summer 1992 or 1993.

 

[Harvester]

In the early eighties we would often holiday in Somerset, and would sometimes spend an evening or two at Taunton station. The standby on the stabling point was always a pair of 31s, and one evening they were actually needed when a 47 failed in the station on a parcels train. I can remember the 31s being referred to as the Taunton Twins by the train crew.

 

[Gloster]

In the early eighties we would often holiday in Somerset, and would sometimes spend an evening or two at Taunton station. The standby on the stabling point was always a pair of 31s, and one evening they were actually needed when a 47 failed in the station on a parcels train. I can remember the 31s being referred to as the Taunton Twins by the train crew.

They were kept fairly busy in the morning, being used for ballast dropping and trips to Yeovil tip.

 

[D1537]

I've posted this before, but it's relevant here

---------------

In 1988 pairs of 31/4s were booked on 3 diagrams on Summer Saturdays, all out and back trips from Birmingham to Paignton and back. The diagrams were

• 1V26 2340 Liverpool-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M37 0840 Paignton-Manchester (to Bham)
• 1V45 0918 Manchester-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M65 1537 Paignton-Liverpool (to Bham)
• 1V46 0933 Stockport-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M63 1835 Paignton-Wolves (to Bham)

Occasionally the locos for 1M63 and 1M65 would swap round as both pairs were at Paignton together.
For brevity, I have left out the occasions when 31/4s operated successfully, well, apart from a couple of weeks, as you'll see.

May 20th
31424+31445 1V26/1M37, fail Exeter, 50021 to Bristol, 47639 fwd
31419+31451 1V45 fail Bristol, 47534 fwd & 1M65

May 27th
31420 1V45 solo after failure, removed Bristol, 47624 fwd & 1M65
31437+31462 1V46, 31437 fail Bristol, 31462 fwd alone & 1M63 (!)

June 3rd
31400+31402 1V45, 31402 fail Cheltenham, diverted into Gloucester. 47142 to Bristol, 47628 fwd to Exeter (caped) & 1M65 (start Exeter)
31424+31446 1V26/1M37 fail Bromsgrove, 37223+37242 to Bham

June 10th
Two pairs successful, but 1V46/1M63 was 47624

June 17th
31406+31424 1V26, fail Bristol, 47826 forward & 1M37
31437+31446 1V45/1M63, 31437 fail Newton Abbot on 1V45, removed at Bristol on 1M63, 50035 fwd

June 24th
47482 1V45/1M65, due to 31/4s failing to multiple at Bham

July 1st - All 31s at last!
31423+31467 1V45, fail Bristol, 31407+31412 forward & 1M65. 31407+31412 happened to be at Bristol as they had worked a railtour.

July 8th
31415+31455 1V26/1M37, fail Bristol , 47142 fwd
31405+31411 1V46/1M65, removed Bristol, 47565 fwd

July 15th
31417+31419 1V26, 31419 fail, removed Bristol, 47618 fwd & 1M37
31408+31455 1V45, 31408 fail @ Parkway, removed Bristol, 47823 fwd & 1M65 to Bristol, amusingly Bath Road had bolted the two good ones they had left over from the morning's carnage together so 31417+31455 fwd

July 22nd
31411+31423 1V26, failed with fuel issues, 47211 1M37

July 29th
One successful pair, but 47459 1V26/1M37 and 47456 1V46/1M63

August 5th
31437+31454 1V26, fail Bristol, 47625 fwd & 1M37

August 12th
31426+31467 1V26, fuel issues again, ran light to Exeter. 47316 was 1M37 to Exeter, 31426+31467 forward, 31426 fail before Bristol, 47052 from Bristol.
1V45/1M65 was 47452

August 19th
31460+31451 1V46, 31451 fail Taunton, 31460 fwd alone & 1M63 to Exeter, 47310 fwd
47639 was 1V26/1M37

August 26th
31423+31446 1V26/1M37, removed Bristol, 47802 fwd
31462+31464 1V45/1M65, failed on the Lickey, 37068+37239 assist to Bham

September 2nd - AND THE NATION REJOICED - ON THE 16th ATTEMPT
31420+31406 1V26/1M37
31444+31466 1V45/1M65
31422+31452 1V46/1M63

September 9th
31415+31459 1V46, 31415 fail Exeter & removed, 31459 solo to Paignton, 47145 1M63

September 16th
31411+31417 1V45, 31417 fail S of Bristol & removed at Exeter, 31411 to Paignton and did 1M65 solo
31415+31457 1V46, diverted to avoid failed 1V45, but failed themselves at Weston-Super-Mare, 47616 fwd to Exeter & caped, a now-repaired 31417 did 1M63

September 23rd - AND THE NATION DID REJOICE AGAIN
31423+31435 1V26/1M37
31400+31453 1V45/1M65
31426+31466 1V46/1M63

September 30th
31410+31446 1V45, fail Exeter, 47290 to Paignton & 1M65 to Exeter, 31410+31446 forward

 

[Cowley]

I've posted this before, but it's relevant here

---------------

In 1988 pairs of 31/4s were booked on 3 diagrams on Summer Saturdays, all out and back trips from Birmingham to Paignton and back. The diagrams were

• 1V26 2340 Liverpool-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M37 0840 Paignton-Manchester (to Bham)
• 1V45 0918 Manchester-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M65 1537 Paignton-Liverpool (to Bham)
• 1V46 0933 Stockport-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M63 1835 Paignton-Wolves (to Bham)

Occasionally the locos for 1M63 and 1M65 would swap round as both pairs were at Paignton together.
For brevity, I have left out the occasions when 31/4s operated successfully, well, apart from a couple of weeks, as you'll see.

May 20th
31424+31445 1V26/1M37, fail Exeter, 50021 to Bristol, 47639 fwd
31419+31451 1V45 fail Bristol, 47534 fwd & 1M65

May 27th
31420 1V45 solo after failure, removed Bristol, 47624 fwd & 1M65
31437+31462 1V46, 31437 fail Bristol, 31462 fwd alone & 1M63 (!)

June 3rd
31400+31402 1V45, 31402 fail Cheltenham, diverted into Gloucester. 47142 to Bristol, 47628 fwd to Exeter (caped) & 1M65 (start Exeter)
31424+31446 1V26/1M37 fail Bromsgrove, 37223+37242 to Bham

June 10th
Two pairs successful, but 1V46/1M63 was 47624

June 17th
31406+31424 1V26, fail Bristol, 47826 forward & 1M37
31437+31446 1V45/1M63, 31437 fail Newton Abbot on 1V45, removed at Bristol on 1M63, 50035 fwd

June 24th
47482 1V45/1M65, due to 31/4s failing to multiple at Bham

July 1st - All 31s at last!
31423+31467 1V45, fail Bristol, 31407+31412 forward & 1M65. 31407+31412 happened to be at Bristol as they had worked a railtour.

July 8th
31415+31455 1V26/1M37, fail Bristol , 47142 fwd
31405+31411 1V46/1M65, removed Bristol, 47565 fwd

July 15th
31417+31419 1V26, 31419 fail, removed Bristol, 47618 fwd & 1M37
31408+31455 1V45, 31408 fail @ Parkway, removed Bristol, 47823 fwd & 1M65 to Bristol, amusingly Bath Road had bolted the two good ones they had left over from the morning's carnage together so 31417+31455 fwd

July 22nd
31411+31423 1V26, failed with fuel issues, 47211 1M37

July 29th
One successful pair, but 47459 1V26/1M37 and 47456 1V46/1M63

August 5th
31437+31454 1V26, fail Bristol, 47625 fwd & 1M37

August 12th
31426+31467 1V26, fuel issues again, ran light to Exeter. 47316 was 1M37 to Exeter, 31426+31467 forward, 31426 fail before Bristol, 47052 from Bristol.
1V45/1M65 was 47452

August 19th
31460+31451 1V46, 31451 fail Taunton, 31460 fwd alone & 1M63 to Exeter, 47310 fwd
47639 was 1V26/1M37

August 26th
31423+31446 1V26/1M37, removed Bristol, 47802 fwd
31462+31464 1V45/1M65, failed on the Lickey, 37068+37239 assist to Bham

September 2nd - AND THE NATION REJOICED - ON THE 16th ATTEMPT
31420+31406 1V26/1M37
31444+31466 1V45/1M65
31422+31452 1V46/1M63

September 9th
31415+31459 1V46, 31415 fail Exeter & removed, 31459 solo to Paignton, 47145 1M63

September 16th
31411+31417 1V45, 31417 fail S of Bristol & removed at Exeter, 31411 to Paignton and did 1M65 solo
31415+31457 1V46, diverted to avoid failed 1V45, but failed themselves at Weston-Super-Mare, 47616 fwd to Exeter & caped, a now-repaired 31417 did 1M63

September 23rd - AND THE NATION DID REJOICE AGAIN
31423+31435 1V26/1M37
31400+31453 1V45/1M65
31426+31466 1V46/1M63

September 30th
31410+31446 1V45, fail Exeter, 47290 to Paignton & 1M65 to Exeter, 31410+31446 forward

Yes I remember this from the last time you posted it now @D1537. What an excellent summary.

 

[Magdalia]

I've posted this before, but it's relevant here

---------------

In 1988 pairs of 31/4s were booked on 3 diagrams on Summer Saturdays, all out and back trips from Birmingham to Paignton and back. The diagrams were

• 1V26 2340 Liverpool-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M37 0840 Paignton-Manchester (to Bham)
• 1V45 0918 Manchester-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M65 1537 Paignton-Liverpool (to Bham)
• 1V46 0933 Stockport-Paignton (from Bham) / 1M63 1835 Paignton-Wolves (to Bham)

In anticipation of the above, I included this in my brief summary.

When properly maintained and prepared they worked very well.

The details in the full message relate to 1989, not 1988, and many of the failures were coolant related. Note the large number of instances of locos being removed from trains at Bristol Temple Meads, after long periods of sustained high speed running. I've already referred to this issue here:

When this happened it was usually the leading loco that overheated, and with number 1 end leading. Part of good preparation was putting the number 1 ends together in the middle of the pair, so that number 2 end was leading in both directions.

Some of the other failures were down to the locos "not talking to each other" the preparation having neglected to check whether the locos were working correctly in multiple. In these instances the lead loco would end up doing most (sometimes all) of the work. This was an endemic feature of blue star multiple working and was not peculiar to class 31s.

But in the no blame culture this was mainly the fault of the people who produced and signed off the loco diagrams in the first place. There were long standing and well documented issues with cooling of class 31s, when running long periods at high speed in hot weather, going back to the 1970s. They were asking for trouble, and they got it.

 

[david1212]

Potentially OT but now around 25 years ago.

Eagle Railtours operated for a while with tours from the Birmingham area. Prices were reasonable, I wish I still had the paperwork but I am sure in real terms significantly less than Pathfinder are now for standard class.

I did at least three two tours Aberystwyth + VoR ( Sunday 16th May 1999 but from Six Bells Junction 2 x Class20 - Fare £28 and maybe not including VoR ) and Ravenglass + R&ER ( Saturday 13th July 2002 and from Six Bells Junction 31128+31459 - Fare £41 and maybe not including R&ER ). I was booked for York but it was cancelled as the day of Lady Diana's funeral.
For Ravenglass a good run up/down the WCML for the 31's in view of the potential overheating discussed above.

This page shows 2 x Fragonset class 31 on an Eagle tour to Penzance. I can't recall but I didn't go so logically clashed with something.

EDIT:- Dates of Aberystwyth & Ravensglass tours added. Given I can't find an Eagle Railours to Minehead on Six Bells junction but have found one by Cheshire Railtours that fits with fare £37 + £3 for WSR train outbound most likely the tour I am thinking of.

EDIT2:- Fares added from cheque book stubs.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Wessex Trains operated Top & Tail 31s on some Bristol-Weymouth services plus a weekly foray to Brighton.

 

[Pigeon]

I was booked for York but it was cancelled as the day of Lady Diana's funeral.

Hehe, I remember that day. I was going to my sister's wedding and there were such crowds of people and photographers waiting on bridges and embankments that I thought there must be a steam working due and I was bummed to have missed it. It wasn't until some weeks later I discovered that they had only been waiting for a duff.

 

[Cowley]

Hehe, I remember that day. I was going to my sister's wedding and there were such crowds of people and photographers waiting on bridges and embankments that I thought there must be a steam working due and I was bummed to have missed it. It wasn't until some weeks later I discovered that they had only been waiting for a duff.

I know she wasn’t everyones favourite but I’ve never heard her called that…

 

[Richard Scott]

There was a Birmingham to Great Yarmouth summer Saturday train in early 90s that was rostered a pair to Norwich for a second pair forward. Also had a pair on a Wolverhampton to Euston train diverted via Nuneaton. They worked as far as Nuneaton. As mentioned in an earlier post there was a pair on a Cambrian Coast train on summer Saturdays in early 90s, I think only for one season. Only three locos could work the train 31146, 31147 or 31166 from memory.

 

[hooverboy]

Multiple class 31's, if you are also including top-and-tail in that definition, were used on the marston vale line for a short period.

Double headed 31's could occasionally be seen on the MML in place of the typical CL45 or 47 back in the 1970's to 1980's
Double headed 25's also used from time to time.