Any trains with front windows for passengers?

[Bringback309s]

The 312's and 310's on the GE had them right up until withdrawal

 

[randyrippley]

lets think about this a bit.......with modern remote control / push pull systems the driver doesn't need to be at the front. He could be anywhere on the train, controlling it remotely with the view ahead provided by camera. The front coach could then be turned into an observation car with panoramic windows.
An added advantage would be that with less risk to the driver, he'd have less incentive to drive protectively and would be more likely to use the trains speed to its full potential. No need for the driver to worry about bricks through the window...........

 

[jopsuk]

OK, 210s and 312s is a rather later design than I expected- but it remains that not having forward views on current stock is not down to any sort of squeamishness or worry about being sued as far as I can tell. It seems to be primarily a technical design descion. Unless anyone can prove otherwise? After all, all the 1960s built Southern Region stock didn't have a forward view. Most 1970s EMUs didn't. No 1980s DMUs or EMUs did. It's not something that's suddenly been inflicted upon the railway.

 

[rf_ioliver]

As for double-decker EMUs, Oliver Bulleid produced some, the 4DD, for the Southern, or the Southern Region of British Railways as it had become before they were actually built in 1949, which were used between Charing Cross and Dartford.

They were withdrawn in 1971 and, apparently, two vehicles are still extant.

Looking at your picture, no wonder the pax didn't like them...they must be about 2 inches wide. I know the British loading gauge is small but really!!!



Ian

 

[Joe19B]

Mea culpa.

Note to self: I must wear my glasses.

These are scanned out of 'Bulleid of the Southern.'

 

[Deepgreen]

I regularly used to ride in the rear cabs of 508 and 455 stock, including sitting in the driver's seat to view the receding railway, before they were locked out of use.

 

[notadriver]

I regularly used to ride in the rear cabs of 508 and 455 stock, including sitting in the driver's seat to view the receding railway, before they were locked out of use.

Surely that's a security breach by accessing an unauthorized area of the train ?


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[Tetchytyke]

Train drivers seem to be a shy lot, road vehicles have a view forward

Not behind the driver they don't. Buses have a fixed wall and coaches have a blind that every driver I've seen pulls down.

As for seeing out of the front, I expect it may change with automation. The DLR has seats with a view out of the front, so do the automated trains on the Paris Metro and the Dubai Metro.

 

[gage75]

I seem to remember the old 313's on the goblin line that you could see out the centre window in the gangway door

 

[notadriver]

I seem to remember the old 313's on the goblin line that you could see out the centre window in the gangway door

313s on the goblin line ? I thought it wasn't electrified and they are only just doing that now ?


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[100andthirty]

If you go to Switzerland there's a panorama train that goes from Montreux to Zweisimman which has a forward view for first class passengers. The driver sits in a compartment above the passengers

 

[talltim]

Not behind the driver they don't. Buses have a fixed wall and coaches have a blind that every driver I've seen pulls down.

As for seeing out of the front, I expect it may change with automation. The DLR has seats with a view out of the front, so do the automated trains on the Paris Metro and the Dubai Metro.

Coaches I've been on have the driver sat lower than the passengers, with a view over their head and no blind, or anywhere to put one.

 

[Deepgreen]

Surely that's a security breach by accessing an unauthorized area of the train ?


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It used to be quite common then (1970s/early 80s) and staff seemed to have no concerns about it - in fact it was quite common to see staff directing passengers into the rear cabs when very crowded.

 

[notadriver]

It used to be quite common then (1970s/early 80s) and staff seemed to have no concerns about it - in fact it was quite common to see staff directing passengers into the rear cabs when very crowded.

So you're saying that the railway industry today is oversensitive and rear cabs should be left open or available to passengers ?


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[Deepgreen]

So you're saying that the railway industry today is oversensitive and rear cabs should be left open or available to passengers ?


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No - times have changed.

 

[Philip C]

Just to add another example of forward views I will mention the pre-refurbished CEPs/BEPs where periscopes in guard's areas were easily accessed. Each four-car unit had two guard's sections and those not used as a base for the guard [generally singular] were open for passenger use - on peak workings occupation of those areas was the only way of shifting the traffic.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[Bletchleyite]

Keyhole? Try large windows in European stock's end doors!


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[Beebman]

Mark 2 & 3 coaches have windows in the gangway doors, only small ones but rather larger than a keyhole! I certainly remember standing in the rear vestibule of a Deltic-hauled service observing the departure from KGX and the journey through the tunnels.

Also some Mark 1 catering vehicles had rather larger windows in the gangway doors, possibly a later addition? Of course it was unusual to have such a coach as the end vehicle but it did happen occasionally. The best photo I can find of this is of a preserved coach at the Bluebell Railway:

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[zuriblue]

On a lot of trains the back wall of the cab has been used as a handy place to put electrical and electronic systems that it would be useful for the driver to have ready access to for fault finding etc.

Did any mainline EMU other than the Class 303 have a view through the cab? Not all the 1st gen DMUs did, and none of those were built after 1963. As far as I can tell the era of building mainline (as opposed to light rail) trains with a forward view for the UK was little more than decade from the early 50s to the early 60s

When I was at school sometimes we would get a 310 instead of the more usual 304 (Manchester area) which had a drivers eye view.

Most German MUs tend to have windows in the back of the cab.

 

[Harbornite]

Keyhole? Try large windows in European stock's end doors!

There's a vid on youtube somewhere which shows a PKP EP07 being filmed through the window in the gangway of the coach that's behind the loco. I'll dig it out later.

 

[colchesterken]

I like Croydon trams you can see the road ahead behind the driver

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I like Croydon trams you can see the road ahead behind the driver

Can on most UK trams. Not sure about the Vossloh tram-trains for Sheffield to Rotherham though.

 

[gage75]

313s on the goblin line ? I thought it wasn't electrified and they are only just doing that now ?


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Ooops must of been thinking of Cls 150's

 

[WesternS]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the trains in Corsica as yet.... the one from Bastia to Ajaccio has new stock, and the driver's view is pretty much the passenger's view as it's all glass (floor to ceiling) behind him. Most of the drivers seem pretty happy to let people see what they're up to, with the blind down a little to keep the sun out. No slouches when it comes to going downhill and what a view too....

The one from Calvi - Ponte Vecchio (via Ille Rousse) uses the older stock, but still with the same 'let the passenger see too' approach... and of course a ride to rival some of the Cambrian, Cumbrian and Cornish lines too....

Very cheap as well - a 2.5 hour each way from Ponte Vecchio to Ajaccio, so plenty of time to look out. Very well-used in the summer.. Even my ex- (who generally finds riding on a train a little amusing) was most impressed with these ones.... and I note that the FlyBe July/August magazine is singing the praises of the line !

 

[XDM]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the 6 London midland trains per hour in each direction between Stourbridge junc & Stourbridge town. Clear view ahead,not even a small blind hiding the driver & nothing to stop you talking to him as he drives. It makes the journey much more fun,but no different from a bus/coach.

 

[Philip C]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the 6 London midland trains per hour in each direction between Stourbridge junc & Stourbridge town. Clear view ahead,not even a small blind hiding the driver & nothing to stop you talking to him as he drives. It makes the journey much more fun,but no different from a bus/coach.

Post #20 does reference the PPMs but thanks for the more detailed comments.

 

[XDM]

Sorry. I get annoyed when people do what I have just done! But I do recommend the parry people mover. It is fun.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the 6 London midland trains per hour in each direction between Stourbridge junc & Stourbridge town. Clear view ahead,not even a small blind hiding the driver & nothing to stop you talking to him as he drives. It makes the journey much more fun,but no different from a bus/coach.

Did the "LEV" railcars have a similar set-up, cab wise? From pictures they appear to be essentially a double-ended Leyland National bodyshell, with doors at the nearside corner on each end so presumably a bus-like arrangement.