"Anyone Else Needing Tickets?"

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Class195, 13 Jan 2020.

  1. Class195

    Class195 Member

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    Is it any wonder Northern are struggling financially when I see blatant fare dodging on the Aire Valley lines due to the conductors inability to check everyone’s ticket.

    Why do they repeatedly just walk down the train asking the “does anyone need tickets” line, when I see people board at stations without tickets and then get off a few stops further down the line.
     
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  3. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Because Northern have declared it a Penalty Fare area and customers have therefore had an opportunity to buy even if paying cash or otherwise unable to use the TVM.
    I have no idea what policy is as some staff do check tickets.
    Revenue protection staff are not unknown at intermediate stations incidentally, though if there is a specific significant flow you are aware of you could let the TOC know.
     
  4. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    My observation is that generally guards will offer the opportunity to buy on Leeds bound services, whilst in the opposite directions they will undertake a full ticket check (where possible).
     
  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    becuase it is in a penalty fare area and they are offering people the chance to buy a ticket if the machine wasn't working, wont take your card or you only have cash. Obvisouly, they should have a promise to pay ticket mind, but the machines, sometimes, don't spit then out!

    I think because the machines on the stations into Leeds don't accept cash whereas Leeds has a ticket counter where you can pay cash.
     
  6. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    I've seen guards go down the train, ask anyone if they need tickets, and then a short while later come back and do a ticket check.

    This means that anyone who doesn't buy tickets no longer has the excuse that the ticket machine was broken etc, or they were looking for the guard.

    Ticket checks and sale of tickets happens simultaneously on Greater Anglia mostly.
     
  7. 2L70

    2L70 Member

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    Strange how some assume that someone gets one without a ticket to the point where they’re pointing “him! her!” Even though revenue staff have checked them.

    Best way to do it on Penalty fare lines IMO - As they do on NIR
    Guard goes through anyone need a ticket
    RPI gets on next stop full check
    Someone lied
    Bang Penalty Fare.
     
  8. Undiscovered

    Undiscovered Member

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    Usually a couple of BTP and plainclothes around too, to help with those folks who, quite coincidentally, need to go to the toilet as soon as they get on the train and finish just in time for their destination, 45minutes away.

    The look on their faces when they realise they're busted.
     
  9. Gems

    Gems Member

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    Some very vivid imaginations here. So lets furnish you with reality.

    Penalty fare staff are rarely seen outside of their comfort zone which is Leeds station. The truth of the complaint by the original poster lies somewhere in between. A lot of the new staff Northern have taken on just seek a very easy life. Basically they are not up to the job of challenging people. Then again Northern have fueled this by failing miserably to back up staff. When you prefer to blame staff for confrontations you end up here.

    That said. Never fall into the trap of thinking everyone you see board and unboard without having their ticket checked is dodging. That is a very dangerous assumption and often wrong.
     
  10. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    My vivid imagination sees them often enough at Shipley and Saltaire, the two stations I use most often.

    Your second point is entirely valid, though.
     
  11. Gems

    Gems Member

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    They do stand at Shipley in the quieter periods. Saltaire as well for the kids. But the effectiveness is very limited. If you had two staff on every entrance at Shipley you would need a minimum of 24 if you included the lift access. It's just tokenism at it's worst.
     
  12. MotorcycleAlan

    MotorcycleAlan Member

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    Season ticket holders perhaps?
     
  13. Gems

    Gems Member

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    Or e-tickets. or tickets bought on apps. Return portions of tickets bought earlier. Or MCards, Smartcards. or tickets from TVM's.

    Dangerous game is assuming everyone is dodging.
     
  14. Gems

    Gems Member

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    You see I learned a lesson early on in my railway life. Two young scallies I assumed were dodging came running to hand in a bag a old woman had left on the train. The same woman who thought they were up to no good and gave them a hard time.

    Then there was the lad who again went into the toilet straight away. Shortly after I had a medical emergency and out he came and was an incredible help.

    Don't assume anything.
     
  15. Djgr

    Djgr Member

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    Well authorities in other countries/cities (Luxembourg, Kansas City) are starting to eliminate fares for local journeys. Solves this problem overnight.
     
  16. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    At the end of the day though, someone has to pay for it, and free public transport brings more demand which is going to result in someone footing a bigger bill than there is now.
     
  17. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    There are some stations with cash accepting TVMs, Guiseley is one with one on P2. I think there are some others dotted around at the busier stations too, but couldn't say for certain.

    To be fair Leeds is the major flow for punters down the Aire Valley, so you can see why it might be a "comfort zone".

    You don't need to cover the lifts, all of them need to you pass through one of the exits usually covered. So 2 exits on P1, 2 on P2, and four for p3-5. And to be honest a bit of money spent on improving, and reducing the number of entrances could mean it possible to consider installing gatelines.

    Good luck selling that idea to the government!
     
  18. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    I do 'anyone need a ticket' on busy trains running to barriered stations and then do a check afterwards. It's making the best use of limited time. I'm not there to pick a fight over £4 when I could be collecting many times that and allowing revenue protection to deal with any miscreants.
     
  19. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    Whilst I always have a ticket, one potential problem is with some of your colleagues asking "anyone need a ticket", or "any tickets from the last station", sometimes walk so quickly through the train that they are several feet past me before I have time to react.
     
  20. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    I have the inverse problem, people who start rustling around without making any kind of form of verbal/visual communication or eye contact with me and then some time later hailing me down and saying 'you rushed past me!' :p
     
  21. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    I see this once or twice a week when im up Chorley way on the way to Blackpool. Seeing how they do revenue protection at Preston i would think it would be better if they didnt and just asked to see tickets - i see one regular who only goes to Buckshaw and he never buys one unless the guard comes round. Pretty poor but im sure he isnt the only one
     
  22. father_jack

    father_jack Member

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    What I call "Anyone need a ticket" or "Any unchecked tickets" guards are skimmers. They skim the top, get a few quid to cash in every day, never get assaulted, never come to the attention of their managers. And they do their time, don't get stressed and do 30 years and retire. Maybe they have the right idea !!!
     
  23. Wychwood93

    Wychwood93 Member

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    Cynical but true - get the early trains when not all ticket offices are open and take the percentage, and cash in to the ticket office (the main one) - at least one guard down my way used to do that some 30 years ago - take the early shift and take the money. Why not? Early start and finish, BRSA lunchtime - great!
     
  24. Class195

    Class195 Member

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    Apologies if anyone assumes that I was pointing the finger at everyone.

    I meant to be more concise and just like the person above has referenced a certain individual.

    I see numerous individuals on my morning commute, who when asked to show there tickets buy one from the guard. However, if said guard only asks for people wanting to buy tickets then guess what happens, they remain quiet and get a free ride.
     
  25. CaptainHaddock

    CaptainHaddock Established Member

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    I actually disagree with the OP and think guards who say "Anyone need a ticket" are much more customer-friendly than those who insist on a full ticket check. On my morning commute to Leeds the vast majority of passengers are regular commuters travelling to either Wakefield Kirkgate or Leeds, both of which have barrier checks so there really is no need for a check on the train.

    There's few things more irritating on a train than settling down to snooze or to listen to music only to be woken up halfway through your journey by some jobsworth conductor insisting he has to check absolutely every ticket on the train. It's much more customer-friendly to treat passengers as decent honest people rather than treating everyone as a suspected fare dodger.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2020
  26. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    imagine someone attempting to do their job. How very dare they disturb such an important person as you! ;)
     
  27. Purple Orange

    Purple Orange Member

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    Except that is not the best way. I, like many season ticket holders, do not need to buy a ticket but, on occasions I have found myself getting off the train and I have found it is not in my pocket. In your scenario I am a liar and should be liable for a penalty, when I have paid for my journey in advance.
     
  28. voyagerdude220

    voyagerdude220 Established Member

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    Well said. ;)

    Joking aside, Captain Haddock, wouldn't you get annoyed if Conductors just sat in the back cab between stations and never appeared through the train?

    Putting revenue aside, surely it's also good for passengers to have a visible member of staff who can help them, regardless of whether they want advice on tickets/times/where to change trains etc.?

    Also potentially a visible deterrent to anyone behaving anti socially.
     
  29. CaptainHaddock

    CaptainHaddock Established Member

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    Not in the slightest. I always have a valid ticket when I'm travelling, more often than not my season ticket, so I'd prefer the conductor to disrupt my journey as little as possible. In my experience on most late evening trains, most conductors only emerge from their back cab to do the doors.
     
  30. voyagerdude220

    voyagerdude220 Established Member

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    Fair enough.
     
  31. MalaiseForever

    MalaiseForever Member

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    Travelled a few times on Northern over the past few days. Both times on Calder Valley there were multiple full ticket checks.
     

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