Anyone remember NE to SW overnight summer holiday services of 1970s and 80s

[PaxmanValenta]

Does anyone remember the XC holidaymaker special services that operated from Newcastle to Paignton in the 1970s and 80s?

Any extra information or links would be greatly appreciated and what locos and formations were used.

They were often joined onto the scheduled mail trains.

I remember in 1983 as a child leaving Newcastle at about 1030pm. The train was loco hauled with a class 37 or 45 and mark 1 stock. I remember our coach being a MK1 TSO. It followed the present XC route via Doncaster, Birmingham NS etc.
It stopped at Bristol TM for about an hour to off load mail. Arriving in Paignton at about 8am.

However the return service was operated using an HST which stopped at all stations to Exeter then no more stops until Birmingham New Street.

I'm wondering if the overnight train was comprised of Laira based rolling stock and loco since the return service was an HST?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I thought they were HSTs in the 80s. AFAIR there were services from Newcastle/Leeds/Manchester to Paignton & Newquay

 

[PaxmanValenta]

I thought they were HSTs in the 80s. AFAIR there were services from Newcastle/Leeds/Manchester to Paignton & Newquay

The daytime return services SW to NE were HSTs but the outward NE to SW overnight trains were loco hauled and often coupled to mail trains.

 

[randyrippley]

I can remember a week spent on the sea wall at Dawlish in the early 1970's, and on the saturday there were passenger trains streaming through every few minutes in both directions
A lot of cross country stuff - mainly MkI's some still red, often with the roof felt peeling off. Some running with cracked windows. You could tell they were XC by the destination labels in the windows....
Mix of 47 and Peak hauled, both 45 and 46. Still a few Westerns about, but mainly on Paddington runs. No class 50's yet by then and obviously no HSTs

None of the trains I saw carried mail vans

 

[AndrewE]

No, but I remember overnight journeys in Mk I corridor stock on Manchester-Brighton and Manc- Paignton trains. Very useful for an early start to a day or a long weekend in the South.

 

[SouthDevonian]

HSTs were first introduced on the XC route on 5/10/81 but only on a few services. What was described as full squadron service began in Spring 1982. I don’t have a copy of the 1983 timetable but the 1982 shows a 22.38 Newcastle – Paignton that had no stops between York & Cheltenham and a 38 minute wait at Bristol. The latter may have been to let passengers use the station café that opened on Friday nights in summer.

The PSUL website shows the 1983 Newcastle train as leaving at 22.25 and booked to take the Sheffield and Birmingham New St avoiding lines (ie. Rotherham Masborough Station South Jn - Beighton Jn - Tapton Jn; and Landor Street Jn - Bordesley Jn - Kings Norton Station Jn).

The loco would have been a 45 or 46 Peak (I can’t remember when Gateshead ceased using its 46s on XC trains). A Class 37 would have only been used if there had been a failure and no type 4 loco was available – even then it would have been replaced asap. The rolling stock is unlikely to have been sourced by the WR as it and the loco would have returned north within a few hours after arriving in Paignton – just enough time for a quick interior clean in Goodrington sidings. The return was probably the 10.15 SO Paignton – Leeds.

I don’t know about the XC mail arrangements but I thought the M-F overnight Newcastle – Bristol and return mail trains ceased in the 1970s.

 

[30907]

Away from home ATM so I can't dig out timetables but memories of a "roving" holiday based at Teignmouth in 1970 or 71 say:
there was a TPO attached to 0630 Temple Meads-Plymouth and 1615 Plymouth-TM off the Newcastle-Bristol mails. The stock of the latter was off the 0800 TM-Penzance, not sure of the down train.

The mails themselves ran 1930-0430 or so in both directions, (and of course connected with the York-Aberystwyth mails). Not sure the coaching stock ran through, and in any case it wouldn't have been more than 3-4 vehicles.

The holiday overnight services often had a longish stop somewhere for refreshments, tanking up and to ensure RT arrivals in the SW.

 

[deltic]

In 1970 the 21.10 Newcastle - Paignton FO service included 2 GUV from Newcastle to Newton Abbot to carry cars and returned at 08.45 on the Saturday.

There was a daily overnight 19.30 Newcastle-Bristol Passenger and Postal service but dont know if it ever carried through coaches beyond Bristol

In 1982 the 21.20 Newcastle - Newquay FO was made up of 6TSO, 1 BSO and 1 CK + 2TSO added at Sheffield - returned as 09.45 to Newcastle and Sheffield

The 22.38 Newcastle-Paigton FO was made up of 6TSO, 1 BSO and 1 CK and returned to Newcastle as 08.40 SO from Paignton.

Neither carried mails as far as I can tell

 

[Masbroughlad]

As a kud, my Dad used to take me to Rotherham Masbrough on Summer Friday nights in the late 70s. There were 3 or 4 trains, usually formed of a Peak or a 47 hauling a long rake of Mk1s, between 2330 and 0030 Saturday.

In 1997 I did an overnight from York to St Erth on a Summer Friday. Cross Country (Virgin) were trying their best to run it down by then. It was the remaining NE-SW overnight service. There was no buffet service on board, the heating wasn't working, it stood in Bristol for ages and did a detour to Paignton on the way to Penzance. HST by the way.

 

[47403]

I'm fairly sure, there was and as you say, predominatley a peak turn, however, being a bit too young to be hanging round Tyne Yard or Central at that time of night, I think, we knew about it but barely ever seen it unless my Dad was with us. Be good if anyone does have the gen about it though.

I know for certain a couple of years later, there was a a Newcastle-Kings Cross loco hauled turn, I think it was a daily working, at least Mon-Fri anyway, can't be totally sure but wasn't it around 22.05 or 22.40, somewhere near there. Now that deinitely had parcel vans and a couple of coaches on it because a few older cranks I used to know, used to use it to get down south on a Friday and spend summer Saturays bashing in the Peterborough/Doncaster Area, this was predominantly a 47 turn but almost anything could be on it, during the summer months, I'm sure I saw a couple of 31's on it myself at Tyne Yard.

Paignton and Newquay turns to Newcastle, I definitely remember, ran summer Saturday's, the Paignton turn was normally a pair of 31's and Newquay turn was normally a Peak, many a time a 45/0, which my mate used to get excited about:roll::roll: I know this because I was normally out after them, most Saturdays

 

[flymo]

I remember these like it was yesterday and yes there were HST's on them, probably in the later years, did them many a time.

Long waits at Birmingham and Bristol too which allowed a stretch of the legs and to watch all of the loco changes at New St. Electrics coming off the West Coast stuff with diesels going on.

Buffet on the HST was on all night but a visit to the buffet at New St and Temple Meads was always a welcome break.

Always enjoyed the run along the sea wall in the early morning sunshine..

Happy memories.

 

[Taunton]

I don't remember the North Mail through Taunton in the 1960s-70s having any extra passenger vehicles on summer weekends. It was normally a heavy train of postal vehicles in its own right, with just a couple of passenger corridor coaches as well. Passenger services were run as extras.

The Down summer overnights came through Taunton in the 1970s, firstly the London services between midnight and 2 am (which often were additional sections of the timetabled services), and then later those from the North. These had stopped at Bristol TM for 30 minutes or more for refreshments. It was useful for stock usage as the Down Friday overnights would form the Up daytime services returning. Large numbers of passengers from the overnights turning up in Torquay etc at 7 am could be a considerable nuisance in the town, where old-fashioned landladies would not open their accommodation until lunchtime, the previous week's guests would not even have come down for their final breakfast by this time, and if it was raining (in Britain ... in August ...), just what did you do ?

It must have been about 1969 when Class 45/46 etc began running through to the West of England, until then it was all WR power beyond Bristol, Westerns, Warships, Hymeks, and if the foreman at Newton Abbot was absolutely down to the dregs (or beyond) by Saturday afternoon, 2 x D63xx in multiple on an Up service. Class 47 started to creep in, but really were not common until the hydraulics started to go. The D63xx, like their larger D6xx brethren, apparently rode very nicely and comfortably at speed, they were just thoroughly unreliable.

 

[SouthDevonian]

For anyone interested in reading about summer holiday traffic in the SW, there are 2 books that describe all trains and the atmosphere of the times. The better known is Summer Saturdays in the West (authors: David St John Thomas & Simon Rocksborough-Smith) which covers background and details of single specific days in 1957 (steam only) & 1971 (diesel only). The other is The Day of the Holiday Express (author: Richard Woodley) which describes traffic on 9/7/60 at a time when diesels were starting to take over from steam.

For anyone who wants more detailed operating information in steam days, produced by ex-BR Controllers, Xpress Publications have published Operation Torbay & Operation Cornwall. They have produced similar books covering the Somerset & Dorset and Midland & Great Northern Junction (East Anglia) lines.

 

[AJM580]

There was a Glasgow - Paignton overnight in the mid-80s that was loco-hauled with a change to diesel at Birmingham NS. One day I was at Exeter and it tottered in with 37052 on load 14!! It worked to Paignton and back, so I hopped on for the mileage to Paignton before doing 50010 back.