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Anything interesting around Warsaw?

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alex397

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Next month I shall be travelling to Poland, a country I think is under-rated. This time to the capital, Warsaw.

On paper (in other words, my European rail map), it doesn't look like there are any particularly interesting lines to travel on (but prove me wrong!). A quick look on YouTube shows a modern fleet of trains operating around the area.

I shall certainly be having a go on the tram network, especially with their old-style trams still in service. But, is there anything you would recommend in terms of the local rail network? Any interesting lines, or interesting rolling stock to look out for?
 
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class387

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New Pesa double deck sets are loco hauled and very smart. 1960s EN57 sets are still in widespread service.
 

SHD

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There is a lovely narrow-gauge railway museum in Sochaczew, approx. 50 km West of Warsaw, and obviously reachable by train (30 minutes) : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.mkw_sochaczew.html
When I last went (almost 20 years ago, mind you) signs were in Polish only, though.

There is another railway museum within Warsaw, at the site of the former Warszawa Główna railway station : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.o_stacji_muzeum.html

If you are interested in modernism, Warsaw's main station (Warszawa Centralna) is a masterpiece. One of the finest modern architecture buildings from the former Socialist countries.

If you have never experienced it elsewhere, the sound of Soviet-designed MMZ metro cars of the 81.717 series is quite something.
 

takno

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There is a lovely narrow-gauge railway museum in Sochaczew, approx. 50 km West of Warsaw, and obviously reachable by train (30 minutes) : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.mkw_sochaczew.html
When I last went (almost 20 years ago, mind you) signs were in Polish only, though.

There is another railway museum within Warsaw, at the site of the former Warszawa Główna railway station : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.o_stacji_muzeum.html

If you are interested in modernism, Warsaw's main station (Warszawa Centralna) is a masterpiece. One of the finest modern architecture buildings from the former Socialist countries.

If you have never experienced it elsewhere, the sound of Soviet-designed MMZ metro cars of the 81.717 series is quite something.
Centralna is a really splendid temple of modernism. When I went there 12 years or so ago it was more in the style of a crumbling 70s shopping arcade, so they've clearly done a bit of work since.
 

class387

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.

If you have never experienced it elsewhere, the sound of Soviet-designed MMZ metro cars of the 81.717 series is quite something.
Forgot to mention this. Definitely try on of these - I have never heard DC motor thrash like it. They run some journeys on M1. The next train indicators tell you what rolling stock is on the next two trains.
 

alex397

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Thank your for your suggestions so far everyone, most helpful.

Looking on the excellent urbanrail.net website, I can see the WKD light rail line. Also, i've briefly read the history of the Wilenska station (Was a Russian guage station for St. Petersburg trains) - Are these worth a visit at all?

My main aim transport-wise is to see as much older stuff as I can - particularly anything from the Communist era. A lot of rolling stock (trains and trams) from this era can be seen across Eastern Europe, but understandably seems to be rapidly decreasing - it is almost 30 years since that era after all.

1960s EN57 sets are still in widespread service.

Good to know! I shall look out for those. I remember seeing them in Krakow - definitely a blast from the past! Do you know what lines they work on?

There is a lovely narrow-gauge railway museum in Sochaczew, approx. 50 km West of Warsaw, and obviously reachable by train (30 minutes) : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.mkw_sochaczew.html
When I last went (almost 20 years ago, mind you) signs were in Polish only, though.

There is another railway museum within Warsaw, at the site of the former Warszawa Główna railway station : http://stacjamuzeum.pl/en.o_stacji_muzeum.html

If you are interested in modernism, Warsaw's main station (Warszawa Centralna) is a masterpiece. One of the finest modern architecture buildings from the former Socialist countries.

If you have never experienced it elsewhere, the sound of Soviet-designed MMZ metro cars of the 81.717 series is quite something.

I was not aware of the narrow-gauge railway, so thank you. Might pay that a visit. I will definately be visiting the Warsaw railway museum - even with my non-enthusiast friends!

I do enjoy seeing the main stations in European cities, so will definitely be going to Centralna. I probably enjoy them more the main UK rail stations, as there is often a larger variety of trains from different countries, and I like seeing where all the international trains are heading.

Those Metro trains are on my to-do list as well.
 

class387

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Good to know! I shall look out for those. I remember seeing them in Krakow - definitely a blast from the past! Do you know what lines they work on?

They can work basically any line as the main fleet of KM, but they are in different conditions of refurbishment. The ones on R8 seem to be most original.
 

dutchflyer

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There is, realistically speaking and comparing to other capitals, not that much interesting in that capital re railway-matters.
That WKD is a local thing suburban line between tram and train.
Buy yourself a (24hr or longer) dayticket, can be used on metro/tram/bus and also LOCAL KM/WKD/SKM (red+yellow city-owned) trains INside the city-boundaries. Excellent maps are available from ZTM info-offices, alas not at Central, closest by is In the shops-arcade of nearby Centrum Metro stop (just beyond the Stalin skyscraper). There are even cheaper all-weekend tickets too. MAIN Airport is served by KM+SKM trains, the RYAN-MOdlin is about 50 kms out of town-choose between faster and more expens. direct bus or -cheaper and slower-KM bus+Train combo into town. KM also offers 24 hrs ride-at-will tickets (about 35/40 PLN), its green/cream trains serve the whole of the province Mazowieckie around WAW. (PKP=the main general railway ONLY offers InterCity trains long distance to main towns in PL).
 

Adlington

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Also, i've briefly read the history of the Wilenska station (Was a Russian guage station for St. Petersburg trains)
Yes, it was.
But now it's a minor run-down station for suburban trains only, hidden behind a shopping centre. Don't waste your time.
 

Blillpers

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I went to Warzaw a few years ago. The WKD urban line is an interesting experience with older units still in use. From the western terminus in Grodzisk Mazowiecki you can take a short walk (about a mile) to the main line station of the same name. It was easy enough even without a map, I just followed the signs.

The main PKP station is on the main line which carries almost all traffic towards the south of Poland and west towards Lodz. There are lots of IC/Express trains flying though at 100+ mph if you're interested in that kind of stuff. There is also a frequent local service you can take back to the city.
 

class387

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I went to Warzaw a few years ago. The WKD urban line is an interesting experience with older units still in use. From the western terminus in Grodzisk Mazowiecki you can take a short walk (about a mile) to the main line station of the same name. It was easy enough even without a map, I just followed the signs.

The main PKP station is on the main line which carries almost all traffic towards the south of Poland and west towards Lodz. There are lots of IC/Express trains flying though at 100+ mph if you're interested in that kind of stuff. There is also a frequent local service you can take back to the city.
I don't recall seeing any old units on the WKD last year. There seemed to be just two modern types, one of which looked very new so might have replaced the old stock.
 

fowler9

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I thought Warszawa Centralna was was a pretty soulless station where it was difficult to view or photograph trains. The railway museum is worth a visit as is the Army Museum by the river if you are interested in aircraft.
 

Adlington

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I thought Warszawa Centralna was was a pretty soulless station where it was difficult to view or photograph trains.
The soullessness is in the eye of the beholder. But there are no obstacles (physical or legal) to viewing and photographing trains.
 

alex397

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Thank you all for your information! Hopefully I will be able to fit it all in, on top of the many excellent museums apparently there, and the cheap restaurants and booze!

Let me know if there is anything else transport-related worth a visit!

I am travelling from Chopin airport to my accommodation in the Old Town - would anyone recommend the best option of getting there? I've seen there is the S2, S3 and RL train services to the city centre, where I could change to the Metro/Tram to get near to the Old Town. However, there is also the bus 175 which goes direct to the Old Town. As far as I can tell, it would only take a little longer than the train, and would save the hassle of changing in the city centre (usually I wouldn't find it a hassle, but I'd just like to get to my hotel first). Has anyone experienced the train or bus to the city centre? Are there ticket machines at the airport?
 

Adlington

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Are there ticket machines at the airport?
Yes.
On the way to the train station and at bus stops. In terminal 2 there also is a travel shop which sells tickets. Some (most?) buses have a ticket machine on board.
 

alex397

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I have returned from my trip to Warsaw, and had an excellent time.

- The railway museum was one of my favourite parts of the trip (and also my non-enthusiast friends!). The inside is quite interesting (but most things are just in Polish), but the highlight for me was the outside. You get to see the large area of old station platforms, and see the large number of rusting disused locomotives, mostly steam. You can enter a few of the locomotives, both steam and electric. We had the museum to ourselves for the whole time we were there. The museum certainly has a unloved feel about it - it felt like I was back in pre-1989 Poland - but that adds to the charm for me!

- I had a lot of rides on the tram network, where plenty of Konstal 105Na units were still in service. They do not seem to be allocated to any particular route, but just appear randomly on any route it seems. The next-tram indications show this by displaying a wheelchair symbol, so you can tell which tram will be a Konstal. I even saw one of the Konstal 13N trams, but I believe this is a heritage unit - i'm not sure what this was doing. I also saw a red 105Na full of Valentines balloons - presumably also a heritage unit as it was painted red. It was interesting seeing the double-deck bridge (highway on top, trams underneath), and the rather dingy tram stop on the bridge.

- I only had one ride on the Metro (the trams were more convenient for us), but was impressed with my experience of it. I particularly enjoyed the destination indicators displaying an image of the type of train which would be next - that only seems to be of use to enthusiasts and railway staff, but it was a nice touch. I got to experience the 81.717 Metro trains as well, which had an enjoyable sound.

- Centralna station was impressive as I like that Communist-era architecture. Entering the station from street-level (not through the subways) was quite grim, so I was surprised how modern and clean it was inside. I actually liked the recent futuristic architecture within the older design (although slightly takes away the hall-like effect of the original). I did however find the platform numbers rather confusing, i.e. having a Platform number and Track number, some of which did not make logical sense to me. I'm sure i'd get used to it after a while, but it did make me think twice. I have seen this in other European countries, but Centralna seemed more confusing to me for some reason.

- I found it interesting that there were two other stations right next to Centralna - the Scrodmiescie and Srodmiescie WKD stations. The former had interesting 1940s architecture, and still had the old-fashioned flappy destination boards (i'm sure most of you will know their technical name!).

- It was great to see the train fleet looking so modern (especially in one of the former Soviet satellite countries), but the enthusiast in me was hoping to see some older stock, like i've seen in other parts of Central/Eastern Europe. I don't think I saw any of the EN57 units, but I think I may have seen a few heavily modernised examples. My only non-Metro train ride on the trip was the S2 train from Scrodmiescie to Chopin Airport (we caught the bus in the other direction, which took a similar amount of time), which I was impressed with.

- I am used to cheap transport in this part of Europe, but it still surprised me how cheap it was in Warsaw. We bought a 72-hour ticket for Zone 1. Zone 1 covers the vast majority of Warsaw, including the Chopin Airport, and enables travel on the local trains, Metro, bus and tram, for just 32 Zloty (which is about £7!!). Great value!

- For the non-railway/bus/tram stuff, Warsaw was very interesting. The re-built Old Town was fascinating, as well as the more modern central area. There are lots of excellent museums. As well as the railway museum, we went to the Polish Army Museum (another Communist throwback!), where there was a huge amount of tanks, helicopters, jets etc, and thats before you get inside the building. There was also the fascinating Warsaw Uprising Museum.

- It was also my first flight using London Luton Airport. The airport seems to have quite a bad reputation, but I had no problems at all - I was quite pleased with it actually. They seem to have moderised a lot of it recently (and still in the process), and it felt modern, clean and not cramped. Good food facilities, and quick through security. I preferred it to Gatwick. It was a bit annoying that the railway station is not directly outside the airport, and you have to use the shuttle bus (every 10 mins). But, the bus was no hassle at all, and seemed very well organised by Go-Ahead London. Annoyingly, from an enthusiasts point-of-view, I was on the ex-London Citaros in both directions, and did not get a ride on the ex-First FTR bendy-buses (which, I believe are the only 'FTR' vehicles not owned by First). I could of course have waited for one, but I just wanted to get home. Interestingly, concessionary pass holders can also use the service. The roadside ticket-sellers scan it on their hand-held machines and issue a ticket. And for those that are unaware, by getting a train ticket to 'Luton Airport' rather than 'Luton Airport Parkway', the train ticket includes the bus journey.
 

fowler9

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I have returned from my trip to Warsaw, and had an excellent time.

- The railway museum was one of my favourite parts of the trip (and also my non-enthusiast friends!). The inside is quite interesting (but most things are just in Polish), but the highlight for me was the outside. You get to see the large area of old station platforms, and see the large number of rusting disused locomotives, mostly steam. You can enter a few of the locomotives, both steam and electric. We had the museum to ourselves for the whole time we were there. The museum certainly has a unloved feel about it - it felt like I was back in pre-1989 Poland - but that adds to the charm for me!

- I had a lot of rides on the tram network, where plenty of Konstal 105Na units were still in service. They do not seem to be allocated to any particular route, but just appear randomly on any route it seems. The next-tram indications show this by displaying a wheelchair symbol, so you can tell which tram will be a Konstal. I even saw one of the Konstal 13N trams, but I believe this is a heritage unit - i'm not sure what this was doing. I also saw a red 105Na full of Valentines balloons - presumably also a heritage unit as it was painted red. It was interesting seeing the double-deck bridge (highway on top, trams underneath), and the rather dingy tram stop on the bridge.

- I only had one ride on the Metro (the trams were more convenient for us), but was impressed with my experience of it. I particularly enjoyed the destination indicators displaying an image of the type of train which would be next - that only seems to be of use to enthusiasts and railway staff, but it was a nice touch. I got to experience the 81.717 Metro trains as well, which had an enjoyable sound.

- Centralna station was impressive as I like that Communist-era architecture. Entering the station from street-level (not through the subways) was quite grim, so I was surprised how modern and clean it was inside. I actually liked the recent futuristic architecture within the older design (although slightly takes away the hall-like effect of the original). I did however find the platform numbers rather confusing, i.e. having a Platform number and Track number, some of which did not make logical sense to me. I'm sure i'd get used to it after a while, but it did make me think twice. I have seen this in other European countries, but Centralna seemed more confusing to me for some reason.

- I found it interesting that there were two other stations right next to Centralna - the Scrodmiescie and Srodmiescie WKD stations. The former had interesting 1940s architecture, and still had the old-fashioned flappy destination boards (i'm sure most of you will know their technical name!).

- It was great to see the train fleet looking so modern (especially in one of the former Soviet satellite countries), but the enthusiast in me was hoping to see some older stock, like i've seen in other parts of Central/Eastern Europe. I don't think I saw any of the EN57 units, but I think I may have seen a few heavily modernised examples. My only non-Metro train ride on the trip was the S2 train from Scrodmiescie to Chopin Airport (we caught the bus in the other direction, which took a similar amount of time), which I was impressed with.

- I am used to cheap transport in this part of Europe, but it still surprised me how cheap it was in Warsaw. We bought a 72-hour ticket for Zone 1. Zone 1 covers the vast majority of Warsaw, including the Chopin Airport, and enables travel on the local trains, Metro, bus and tram, for just 32 Zloty (which is about £7!!). Great value!

- For the non-railway/bus/tram stuff, Warsaw was very interesting. The re-built Old Town was fascinating, as well as the more modern central area. There are lots of excellent museums. As well as the railway museum, we went to the Polish Army Museum (another Communist throwback!), where there was a huge amount of tanks, helicopters, jets etc, and thats before you get inside the building. There was also the fascinating Warsaw Uprising Museum.

- It was also my first flight using London Luton Airport. The airport seems to have quite a bad reputation, but I had no problems at all - I was quite pleased with it actually. They seem to have moderised a lot of it recently (and still in the process), and it felt modern, clean and not cramped. Good food facilities, and quick through security. I preferred it to Gatwick. It was a bit annoying that the railway station is not directly outside the airport, and you have to use the shuttle bus (every 10 mins). But, the bus was no hassle at all, and seemed very well organised by Go-Ahead London. Annoyingly, from an enthusiasts point-of-view, I was on the ex-London Citaros in both directions, and did not get a ride on the ex-First FTR bendy-buses (which, I believe are the only 'FTR' vehicles not owned by First). I could of course have waited for one, but I just wanted to get home. Interestingly, concessionary pass holders can also use the service. The roadside ticket-sellers scan it on their hand-held machines and issue a ticket. And for those that are unaware, by getting a train ticket to 'Luton Airport' rather than 'Luton Airport Parkway', the train ticket includes the bus journey.
Glad you enjoyed it. Have been twice now. Loved the railway museum, I also think how decrepit it is is also part of its charm, being an aviation geek I also loved the Polish Army Museum. The first time I visited was mainly to see a Swedish Death Metal band that was playing in a venue at the University which was a bit further out, lots of Warsaw Pact era brutalist buildings around there. Lots of fun. We also visited the national stadium just over the river from the Polish Army Museum and also Legia Warsaws stadium just down the river from the same area. Not everyones cup of tea but lots of very intricate football graffiti there which was really good. There was a huge palace and gardens in that area as well which was really nice.
 
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