Anytime returns - What is the point of them ?

[PhilipW]

What is the point of ever buying an Anytime return ? Buying two singles should never be anymore and there is always a chance than for your return journey you may be able to buy an Off-peak single, which can on some routes be substantially cheaper.

I suspect that only people who buy Anytime Returns are those unfamiliar of UK ticketing practices.

There are some oddities
Take fares from my station, Fareham, to Waterloo.

Anytime Single (no Railcard) is £27-70
Anytime Return (no Railcard) is £56-40 (that is £1.00 more than 2 singles)

My conclusion is that Anytime Returns are a con, just there for the unsuspecting traveller

 

[dan_atki]

I'm sure I remember Fareham being mentioned at the last webchat and how fares there needed amended because of the anomaly you describe.

But in defence of the Anytime and Anytime Day returns - just look at Southampton to London:

SDR (SOU-WAT): £62.00
SDS (SOU-WAT): £31.70
CDS (WAT-SOU): £30.80

Here combining an Anytime Day Single with an Off Peak Day Single is 50p more than just getting the Anytime Day Return.

 

[tony_mac]

For many services up here, certainly some of those priced by Northern, TPE, London Midland, and a few by Virgin, an anytime return is a lot cheaper than two anytime singles.
But, to charge more than for two anytime singles is ridiculous, as is pricing advance tickets above the cost of a walk-on fare, seemingly just to catch out the unwary.

 

[yorkie]

The only point in the Anytimes that cost as much (or more!) than 2 singles is if you are breaking your journey with an overnight stay. Singles won't let you do that.

A really pointless example is Newcastle-Edinburgh Anytime First, this costs £138. Yet you can board a XC or NXEC train and pay just £50 on whichever you choose. The extra £38 doesn't get you any extra flexibility given that, even if you don't know which operator you want to get until the time of boarding you will only pay £100 by paying on the trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

I suppose the big advantage is it saves you the time of queuing at the ticket office. Lets say your are travelling between Nottingham and Birmingham and you travelled outwards at 8:30 you may pay exactly the same price as you would of with 2x singles but you would need to do two transactions. A lot of routes the cheap day single does not exist (if it does on my example sorry).

However as other posters have point out some routes the anytime return would never ever be purchased. Market Rasen to any where North of Peterborough on the ECML is a good example. Market Rasen - Newcastle off-peak is valid all day. The fare simplification has done nothing here as people travelling at say 06:30 may buy the anytime thinking the off-peak is not valid. If the off-peak has no restrictions then this should certainly be the new anytime.

 

[Sleepy]

My understanding given the above example is Anytime fare exists for the purpose of National conditions of carriage when someone boards without a ticket at stations when ticket issuing facilities are available ?

 

[Failed Unit]

My understanding given the above example is Anytime fare exists for the purpose of National conditions of carriage when someone boards without a ticket at stations when ticket issuing facilities are available ?

You could have a point on that one, but surely then an anytime single is all that is needed. Considering that an anytime single is normally about as much as an off-peak return that should be enough to put most people off. A lot of the former regional railways routes this wouldn't matter either as they don't have ticket vending facilaties.

On the subject of strange things. On some routes the operator sells AP tickets for more than the single. On a side track I wonder if people spend more money on buying 2 singles then the would have done on buying an off peak return. (assuming they of course they were travelling off peak)

 

[yorkie]

My understanding given the above example is Anytime fare exists for the purpose of National conditions of carriage when someone boards without a ticket at stations when ticket issuing facilities are available ?

Yes but in the example I gave the TOCs would be more than happy to issue the £50 singles. I know that XC guards are encouraged to offer the TOC specific tickets, and if they see customers presenting the inter-available tickets the guards are supposed to tell them how much they could have saved if they bought an XC only ticket!

 

[37401]

well if you want to go out before 0900 an anytime is not a con

 

[LondonLarry]

Yes but in the example I gave the TOCs would be more than happy to issue the £50 singles. I know that XC guards are encouraged to offer the TOC specific tickets, and if they see customers presenting the inter-available tickets the guards are supposed to tell them how much they could have saved if they bought an XC only ticket!

Aren't guards subject to the same rules regarding impartial retailing as a Ticket Office? If their guards are actively selling XC routed tickets over inter-available fares, couldn't they be in breach of franchise?

 

[yorkie]

I don't think that's a breach though. They are obliged to offer the cheapest fare. The XC fares are the cheapest (in the case of FC fares they are the same as NXEC but NXEC isn't valid as the customer is already on a XC train) so the XC fare should always be sold for a single. If a return is requested, then they should determine if the customer is happy with returning on XC before selling the XC only ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

well if you want to go out before 0900 an anytime is not a con

Why is it not a con before 0900? Many Anytime fares are total con at any time! For example are you really happy paying an Anytime from, say, Birmingham to York leaving on the 0830 from BHM?! I bet you would think it is actually a con at £58 rtn, when you can do it for £25.20 rtn by splitting at Derby and Sheffield, unless you are so rich you have money to burn? (prices for a day return in July/August with your Railcard).

 

[323235]

Yes in some cases it is worthwhile buying an Anytime Return
one example ive found where an Anytime Return is a bit Cheaper than two singles.

Poynton - Stone

2 x Off Peak Day Singles is £20.20 (B3 - valid after 9am)
2 x Anytime Day Singles £21.80
Anytime Return is £13.70

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge to London Kings Cross:
Anytime Return: £37
Anytime Day Return: £32.50
Anytime Day Single: £19.10
Off Peak Return: £29
Off Peak Day Return: £20

no Advance fares exist. There's also a Super Off-Peak, which is valid at Weekends, for £16.

Seems to make sense that it exists?
(Rather expensive, mind, for a fifty mile, fifty minute each way journey. Especially given a day return with a railcard at weekends on the Liverpool Street line is under a tenner)

 

[yorkie]

one example ive found where an Anytime Return is a bit Cheaper than two singles.

I could name hundreds of examples of Anytime return being cheaper than 2 Anytime singles, if I could be bothered to look them up. But I'll name just one example:

York-Sheffield
Anytime Return £18.80
Anytime Day Return £16.90
Anytime Day Single £16.30

The single really is poor value for a 44 mile journey.

The same fares apply to Dronfield, but if you go to Chesterfield then you are quite literally being defrauded with the single being an extra £14.70 for 5 miles extra. Hopefully no-one will fall for that scam. Computers have anti-virus protection, I think the equivalent needs to exist for rail fares to avoid falling victim to scams and frauds by the TOCs.

 

[LondonLarry]

What is the point of ever buying an Anytime return ? Buying two singles should never be anymore and there is always a chance than for your return journey you may be able to buy an Off-peak single, which can on some routes be substantially cheaper.

I suspect that only people who buy Anytime Returns are those unfamiliar of UK ticketing practices.

There are some oddities
Take fares from my station, Fareham, to Waterloo.

Anytime Single (no Railcard) is £27-70
Anytime Return (no Railcard) is £56-40 (that is £1.00 more than 2 singles)

My conclusion is that Anytime Returns are a con, just there for the unsuspecting traveller

That example would be an error in the fares system. An Anytime Return should be the same price as, or cheaper than 2 Anytime Singles. I'm sure SWT will correct the fare from January 2010.

 

[stut]

It's also a question of convenience. I can turn up to my local station, buy an Anytime Return from the machine for a trip to London, and avoid the horrendous Friday evening queues (yes, on the TVMs as well - I've missed a train before after queueing for over 20 minutes at Euston) on the way back. If there's a couple of quid in it, I'm not likely to notice.

 

[tony_mac]

you can buy a 1st Anytime return, then use the 1st class lounge for the next month