Apparently callous non-connection Didcot (etc) to Heyford (etc)

[Nicholas43]

I totally accept that pathing is not for amateurs, and there may be many pitfalls not apparent to me. I am just wondering why, on summer Sundays, 2M42, the 0944 from Oxford to Banbury, could not leave Oxford at, say, 0951, thus providing a connection from 1W35, the 0846 from Paddington to Great Malvern?

 

[rg177]

Probably this ECS which needs to use the same platform from 09:53:

Realtime Trains | 5L01 0951 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot | 25/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5L01 0951 departure from Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot on 25/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As it has to get to Reading it has to slot in quite tightly, so retiming this would have far-reaching effects. It leaves Oxford Carriage Sidings at 09:51, so you couldn't have the Banbury service also departing the platform at 09:51, more than likely. There'll be a rule/margin for when a service can depart Platform 3 and another service can depart the siding to access it.

 

[Zomboid]

There's no immediately obvious reason why the ECS can't use one of the through lines, though. Unless there's a crew change in the platform.

 

[louis97]

There's no immediately obvious reason why the ECS can't use one of the through lines, though. Unless there's a crew change in the platform.

There is no access from the Up Sidings to the through lines.

 

[30907]

There is no access from the Up Sidings to the through lines.

In which case, can the Banbury use P2 following the departure of the 0941 Chiltern?

 

[Zomboid]

In which case, can the Banbury use P2 following the departure of the 0941 Chiltern?

It's not shown at Oxford for some reason, but if you look at Oxford Parkway (and add a week to the date), there's a path (5F14) from Milton Keynes due to arrive in platform 2 at 0945.

Why could 5L01 not leave the up sidings earlier and wait on the up relief south of the station, or in the loop at Kennington Junction to wait for its path clear of the station?

 

[louis97]

It's not shown at Oxford for some reason, but if you look at Oxford Parkway (and add a week to the date), there's a path (5F14) from Milton Keynes due to arrive in platform 2 at 0945.

With the default filter it won't show if it's cancelled or amended (to not call at Oxford). If it's cancelled throughout it'll show if you select "CAN" in the filter.

 

[30907]

It's not shown at Oxford for some reason, but if you look at Oxford Parkway (and add a week to the date), there's a path (5F14) from Milton Keynes due to arrive in platform 2 at 0945.

Which is part of a half-hourly sequence of Q workings - they are presumably the future passenger paths and/or crew training. So my suggestion doesn't work.

Why could 5L01 not leave the up sidings earlier and wait on the up relief south of the station, or in the loop at Kennington Junction to wait for its path clear of the station?

Depends when the crew are booked on!

What about the Banbury running through the platform and reversing south of the station into P4 after the Cotswold has left? Can you do that these days? (Says he, recalling in the 70s seeing a class 117 running into P4 when it was almost completely occupied by a LH set.)

 

[Zomboid]

Depends when the crew are booked on!

Though if it were possible in terms of infrastructure and patching, does that not raise the question of whose benefit the railway is being run for?
Get the crew to start 15 minutes earlier and provide a better service to the passengers...

 

[NSE]

Yeh but if they start 15 minutes earlier then things like their breaks and finishing times could all be altered. If they finish 15 minutes early then they may not be able to complete the shunt or journey they may have otherwise been booked to finish on which would mean a service being cancelled or a unit not being in place to run a service, which arguably disrupts a lot more passengers. Yes, 15 minutes doesn’t sound like much but it’s a lot in terms of railway time.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I totally accept that pathing is not for amateurs, and there may be many pitfalls not apparent to me. I am just wondering why, on summer Sundays, 2M42 could not leave Oxford at, say, 0951, thus providing a connection from 1W35?

Could you try and flesh this out a bit with reference to specific origins, destinations, calling patterns, minimum interchange time and so on, please?

For context, what is special about summer Sundays? Is this a journey opportunity that exists on other days, has done in previous years or whatever?

Reference to actual times rather than just train reporting numbers is also very helpful.

Thanks.

 

[Nicholas43]

Could you try and flesh this out a bit with reference to specific origins, destinations, calling patterns, minimum interchange time and so on, please?

Sorry! On weekdays, there are stopping trains from Didcot to Banbury.

On summer Sundays, there are 3 stopping trains from Oxford to Banbury. The 0846 from Paddington to Great Malvern, which calls at Didcot and Radley, narrowly fails to connect with the 0944 from Oxford to Banbury. I think Oxford has the standard (?) 5 minutes interchange time.

An old-school timetable, T8, is available on-line at the GWR website, for stopping trains from Paddington to Didcot, and Didcot to Banbury. (Unfortunately, the summer Sunday pages that are currently on-line, have a footnote which mistakenly repeats the winter warning that there are no GWR trains between Oxford and Banbury on Sundays.)

Leisure travellers on summer Sundays have many desirable journeys, such as Didcot to Heyford, in order to visit, for example, Rousham House gardens; or Radley to Kings Sutton, in order to walk to Banbury along the Oxford Canal.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Sorry! On weekdays, there are stopping trains from Didcot to Banbury. On summer Sundays, there are 3 stopping trains from Oxford to Banbury. The 0846 from Paddington to Great Malvern, which calls at Didcot and Radley, narrowly fails to connect with the 0944 from Oxford to Banbury. I think Oxford has the standard (?) 5 minutes interchange time.
An old-school timetable, T8, is available on-line at the GWR website, for stopping trains from Paddington to Didcot, and Didcot to Banbury. (Unfortunately, the summer Sunday pages that are currently on-line, have a footnote which mistakenly repeats the winter warning that there are no GWR trains between Oxford and Banbury on Sundays.)
Leisure travellers on summer Sundays have many desirable journeys, such as Didcot to Heyford, in order to visit, for example, Rousham House gardens; or Radley to Kings Sutton, in order to walk to Banbury along the Oxford Canal.

I do think in general that the connections at Oxford could be improved. There’s quite a few 3-4 minutes between GWR and Chiltern connections.

I think that Banbury train could be later and have a tighter turnaround at Banbury. 15 minutes surely isn’t required after such a short run.

 

[The Planner]

I do think in general that the connections at Oxford could be improved. There’s quite a few 3-4 minutes between GWR and Chiltern connections.

I think that Banbury train could be later and have a tighter turnaround at Banbury. 15 minutes surely isn’t required after such a short run.

It isn't, its just the way the timetable falls, you could drop it to 5 easily enough.

 

[jfollows]

On summer Sundays, there are 3 stopping trains from Oxford to Banbury. The 0846 from Paddington to Great Malvern, which calls at Didcot and Radley, narrowly fails to connect with the 0944 from Oxford to Banbury. I think Oxford has the standard (?) 5 minutes interchange time.

Connection time at https://www.brtimes.com/!board?stn=OXF&show=info&date=20250426, yes, it’s 5 minutes.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Has the May 2025 public timetable been published yet? Just looked at the Network Rail website and it only seems to be offering the (current) December 2024 timetable in pdfs and last May's 2024 version.

 

[NSE]

I do think in general that the connections at Oxford could be improved. There’s quite a few 3-4 minutes between GWR and Chiltern connections.

I think that Banbury train could be later and have a tighter turnaround at Banbury. 15 minutes surely isn’t required after such a short run.

It might not be that it’s required, but often it has to be that way. The driver might change ends and be ready to roll after four, but if Chiltern mainline trains are coming through and blocking junctions, it may have to wait there.

I don’t know Banbury’s layout or the timetabling for that neck of the woods, and it may well be possible to change things, but it’s surprising how even the smallest change can cause a knock on that blows the timetable to pieces.

 

[MatthewHutton]

It might not be that it’s required, but often it has to be that way. The driver might change ends and be ready to roll after four, but if Chiltern mainline trains are coming through and blocking junctions, it may have to wait there.

I don’t know Banbury’s layout or the timetabling for that neck of the woods, and it may well be possible to change things, but it’s surprising how even the smallest change can cause a knock on that blows the timetable to pieces.

Yeah I looked at that and it looks OK to be honest.

 

[jfollows]

Has the May 2025 public timetable been published yet? Just looked at the Network Rail website and it only seems to be offering the (current) December 2024 timetable in pdfs and last May's 2024 version.

No.
Partial timetable at https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/may2025/

 

[Nicholas43]

Has the May 2025 public timetable been published yet? Just looked at the Network Rail website and it only seems to be offering the (current) December 2024 timetable in pdfs and last May's 2024 version.

Yes, for GWR's services. They are on GWR's website, via Travel Information, then Train Times.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Yes, for GWR's services. They are on GWR's website, via Travel Information, then Train Times.

Thank you. I hoping to get a full picture of GWR plus CrossCountry plus Chiltern.

As I know from bitter experience it can be very easy to improve one person’s connection at a busy station only to discover/ realise that something else has been ‘broken’.