Are large differences in opinion desirable?

[Bletchleyite]

Are you qualified to make that diagnosis?

No, but his posts certainly read that way, hence my suggestion that he should consider seeing somebody that is.

 

[backontrack]

How can it be anything other than cruel to make someone suffer physical pain, mental pain and death?

'Tis better to have loved and lost then never loved at all. I'd rather live now then have never lived.

What about my other question?

 

[radamfi]

'Tis better to have loved and lost then never loved at all. I'd rather live now then have never lived.

What about my other question?

So you think it is OK for other people to suffer unimaginable pain?

Obviously no one should have been born ever, including you and me.

 

[backontrack]

So you think it is OK for other people to suffer unimaginable pain?

Obviously no one should have been born ever, including you and me.

Right.

I'll be honest; I've had enough of this conversation. It's been dire, quite frankly. I mean, think about this:

We've both agreed that we want to enjoy our lives, right? Well, I'm not enjoying this conversation; and I don't think that you are, either. It's asked some strange theological and existential questions that, although I feel I can answer personally, I don't like thinking about. It's a slippery slope, and one that I, as a tired 14 year-old trying to make inroads on my Chemistry homework, don't wish to embark upon. We can stay here talking about whether or not we should have been born until the cows come home, go on ten weeks' holiday and come back again; and we still won't agree. So what's the point of it? There are better things to do.

We've both agreed that we want to enjoy our lives; so why not start now? Let's end this discussion and do something more meaningful, more fulfilling, more enjoyable. I mean, for our own sanity. You know what I mean. At the end of it all, we're two complete strangers talking about things that neither of us really want to discuss (you may feel you want to discuss this, but by the tone in your posts it doesn't sound like you feel the best right now), and we've no idea what's going on in each other's lives, not that we should want to share that information.

So let's stop the convo here, and go off and do something nicer; read a book, watch something on the TV, write a poem, make something cool to eat or...just lie back and think of all the good things in life. Well...go on...what are you waiting for?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

At least we've avoided the paradox of everyone agreeing that difference of opinion is a good thing.

I don't think that would strictly speaking be a paradox. If we were in that situation then there would presumably be general agreement that the lack of disagreement was not a good thing, but there wouldn't actually be anything logically impossible about the situation

 

[backontrack]

I don't think that would strictly speaking be a paradox. If we were in that situation then there would presumably be general agreement that the lack of disagreement was not a good thing, but there wouldn't actually be anything logically impossible about the situation

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How can it be anything other than cruel to make someone suffer physical pain, mental pain and death?

There are an awful lot (ahem) more good things in life than bad things, in my view at least.
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So you think it is OK for other people to suffer unimaginable pain?

Obviously no one should have been born ever, including you and me.

I quite like having been born, personally. I certainly prefer it over my impression of not existing.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Cynicism is not a problem - it causes people not to take things at face value and to explore them properly. Arguably a good thing.

But cynicism doesn't necessarily have that effect. For example, if you or I publically said something along the lines of "All politicians are only in it for themselves", then despite that statement being manifestly false, quite a few people would very likely accept it without questioning it because of their cynicism. Exploring things properly and not taking them at face value is very often an important part of the process of discovering the facts about situations and I agree with you that that is a good thing and to be encouraged. But cynicism typically involves presuming the worst possible motives or outcomes for some situation, irrespective of whether those motives or outcomes are in fact the most plausible, or even plausible at all. That is an altogether different thing - and arguably not useful or conducive to any thoughtful analysis.

 

[DaleCooper]

I'd rather live now then have never lived.

If you had never lived you wouldn't have an opinion.

I don't think that would strictly speaking be a paradox. If we were in that situation then there would presumably be general agreement that the lack of disagreement was not a good thing, but there wouldn't actually be anything logically impossible about the situation

I thought it was an imperfect example but wasn't sure if that was just my flawed judgement.

I quite like having been born, personally. I certainly prefer it over my impression of not existing.

It is impossible and actually meaningless to have an impression of not existing, if one doesn't exist how can one have any impressions or indeed any sensations, that is the reason people find it easier to assume there must be something after death, fortunately there isn't.

 

[backontrack]

If you had never lived you wouldn't have an opinion.



I thought it was an imperfect example but wasn't sure if that was just my flawed judgement.



It is impossible and actually meaningless to have an impression of not existing, if one doesn't exist how can one have any impressions or indeed any sensations, that is the reason people find it easier to assume there must be something after death, fortunately there isn't.

I think I've already said that I don't want to talk about it, haven't I?

 

[radamfi]

Despite the existence of this thread, vicious arguments are continuing to occur.

 

[Harbornite]

Despite the existence of this thread, vicious arguments are continuing to occur.

I doubt that a threat on a railway forum is going to suddenly make everyone agree on everything. Can't you see that it's natural for people to have different opinions? It's a part of being human and should be allowed to continue, no matter how stupid or far fetched people's beliefs are.

 

[radamfi]

It's a part of being human and should be allowed to continue, no matter how stupid or far fetched people's beliefs are.

Murder and disease are also part of being human, yet those things are almost universally considered undesirable.

 

[Harbornite]

Murder and disease are also part of being human, yet those things are almost universally considered undesirable.

That's a stupid comparison. Differences in opinion aren't as bad as murder or disease, unless these differences lead to war or violence. Let's not use hyperbole.

 

[radamfi]

unless these differences lead to war or violence.

But they do. And worse, make people unhappy.

 

[DaleCooper]

But they do. And worse, make people unhappy.

What's your solution, make differences of opinion illegal?

 

[radamfi]

What's your solution, make differences of opinion illegal?

There is no solution other than not having children.

 

[DaleCooper]

There is no solution other than not having children.

That's a sterile argument.

 

[backontrack]

MY GOD! To the OP: You're still doing this?

You can't expect all arguments to stop because you'd like them to. And you can't suggest that we all go extinct because of that. If anything, you're becoming embroiled in an argument yourself.

Just stop. Please stop. None of us want to hear this. Nobody wants to talk about this. Please, for the love of God, leave us alone.

Methinks this thread has run its course.

 

[Johnuk123]

Methinks this thread has run its course.

Dead right.

 

[backontrack]

Dead right.

Thanks.

 

[DaleCooper]

Methinks this thread has run its course.

I'm tempted to disagree just to be contrary - but I've resisted.

 

[radamfi]

If you have children then if bad things happen you can't really complain, as bad things come part and parcel with being alive.

If just one less child is born because someone reading them has realised what the consequences of having children are, then my posts have been worthwhile.

 

[Gutfright]

Philip remembered the story of the Eastern King who, desiring to know the history of man, was brought by a sage five hundred volumes; busy with affairs of state, he bade him go and condense it; in twenty years the sage returned and his history now was in no more than fifty volumes, but the King, too old then to read so many ponderous tomes, bade him go and shorten it once more; twenty years passed again and the sage, old and grey brought a single book in which was the knowledge the King had sought; but the King lay on his death-bed, and he had no time to read even that; and then the sage gave him the history of man in a single line; it was this: he was born, he suffered, and he died. There was no meaning in life, and man by living served no end. It was immaterial whether he was born or not born, whether he lived or ceased to live. Life was insignificant and death without consequence.

The OP does raise some interesting moral questions, and certainly his beliefs are far more justifiable than those of a Christian or Muslim, for example.

However, I'm not sure any world-changing decisions will be made on this forum. The correct way to spread the word is to rant at people in Victoria Coach Station

 

[DaleCooper]

If you have children then if bad things happen you can't really complain, as bad things come part and parcel with being alive.

If just one less child is born because someone reading them has realised what the consequences of having children are, then my posts have been worthwhile.

"Worthwhile" is not a word I would use to describe your posts, contentious - yes, wooly minded - yes, worthwhile - definitely not.

 

[backontrack]

If you have children then if bad things happen you can't really complain, as bad things come part and parcel with being alive.

If just one less child is born because someone reading them has realised what the consequences of having children are, then my posts have been worthwhile.

Well, perhaps, if one fewer child is born, then I won't tell them why. :P

Good things are part & parcel of life too. But, I'll tell you what, this is a bad thing. And I've had enough about it. Lock now please.

 

[radamfi]

And I've had enough about it. Lock now please.

If you don't like it, why not ignore the thread? There are plenty of other threads to read.

 

[backontrack]

I'm not sure this is something anyone wants to hear about - except you, that is. And by the tone of some of your posts, you're obviously not enjoying it,

 

[Harbornite]

But they do. And worse, make people unhappy.

Differences in opinion do not always lead to war. Yet another stupid statement. :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is no solution other than not having children.

Try telling that to everyone who has children or is planning on having them. I bet you're fun at parties...

 

[radamfi]

Differences in opinion do not always lead to war.

Not always, but sometimes it does.

or is planning on having them.

Surely they are the ones who need to hear the message the most? The crazy thing is, they are convinced that having children will make them happy yet after a few months or years they often envy the carefree lives of the child-free.