Are there any other routes that could potentially be operated by class 769s?

[adamedwards]

Chester to Liverpool with pan up at Runcorn.
Crewe to Derby as electric to Stoke on Trent.
Manchester Bolton Blackburn Clitheroe, assuming the added electric to Bolton is worth it.

 

[Greybeard33]

b. routes that could share depots with"pure" 319s (to keep things operational efficient, rather than having a micro fleet)

Northern does not intend to keep any 319s once the West Midlands 323s are cascaded to replace them. And the remaining 319s elsewhere are also pretty much on borrowed time.

 

[py_megapixel]

The 319s are approaching 40 years old and are visibly on their last legs from a passenger's perspective. This leads me to question how long the 769s are going to last. Because yes, they've acquired diesel engines, but they are still inherently the same outdated, slow-accelerating and unreliable units.

So I don't really think more orders of 769s makes any sense at this point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 319s are approaching 40 years old and are visibly on their last legs from a passenger's perspective. This leads me to question how long the 769s are going to last. Because yes, they've acquired diesel engines, but they are still inherently the same outdated, slow-accelerating and unreliable units.

So I don't really think more orders of 769s makes any sense at this point.

Trains are more like houses than cars, you can essentially keep repairing them forever. Look at the Isle of Wight.

I agree the interiors are dated, but just like a house you can change that.

 

[Iskra]

Blackpool South line would make some sense these days. Although probably not going to Colne or anywhere daft in the other direction. Perhaps just to Preston, Manchester or maybe somewhere with a sedate trip like Ormskirk.

 

[py_megapixel]

just like a house you can change that.

But will they? Almost certainly not. You've seen the quality of Northern's "refurbishments".

Also, surely some pretty large modifications would be needed to solve the issue of the slow acceleration. And lugging around gensets and diesel tanks isn't going to help with that, I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blackpool South line would make some sense these days. Although probably not going to Colne or anywhere daft in the other direction. Perhaps just to Preston, Manchester or maybe somewhere with a sedate trip like Ormskirk.

You could use 769s on that circuit, but those three routes go together quite well in all being non-electrified except for a short stretch of each which is, much as I oppose under-wires running, probably not worth the faff. The three routes would probably be better to be considered for some other alternative-power setup, be that battery-electric or maybe hydrogen, but realistically will probably in the long term end up with displaced 2-car 195s perhaps running on some sort of biodiesel (eventual cascade to these sorts of route is the main reason for 2-cars being ordered at all, I believe).

 

[HST43257]

The northern routes with the largest benefit for having bimodes are (in my view):

In order of priority:
Manchester Airport to Windermere - just the branch at the end without wires.
Southport to Alderley Edge - Southport to Bolton without wires.
Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness - Carnforth to Barrow without wires.
Manchester Piccadilly to Buxton - Hazel Grove to Buxton without wires.

 

[py_megapixel]

The northern routes with the largest benefit for having bimodes are (in my view):

In order of priority:
Manchester Airport to Windermere - just the branch at the end without wires.
Southport to Alderley Edge - Southport to Bolton without wires.
Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness - Carnforth to Barrow without wires.
Manchester Piccadilly to Buxton - Hazel Grove to Buxton without wires.

Southport to Alderley Edge is already planned to get 769s.
They were talking about battery units for Windermere a while ago, though I think that's been dropped. Frankly it's daft that this line has not been electrified, but I digress.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They were talking about battery units for Windermere a while ago, though I think that's been dropped. Frankly it's daft that this line has not been electrified, but I digress.

Agreed. Logic with Windermere would be to wire it and operate the hourly Manchester Airport service to there, with Barrow a DMU connection from either Preston or Lancaster timed to connect with it in both directions. Perhaps simplify the Barrow service as part of that to run it as hourly clockface Lancaster to Carlisle given that the service on the Coast is now near-hourly.

 

[HST43257]

Southport to Alderley Edge is already planned to get 769s.
They were talking about battery units for Windermere a while ago, though I think that's been dropped. Frankly it's daft that this line has not been electrified, but I digress.

Windermere must have simple single line electrification (just like the Braintree branch, for example). You could give it an hourly Manchester service and Barrow could get battery units (with an hourly Manchester service on the other side of the hour). I’ve seen something saying there’s batteries currently capable of travelling 30-40 miles before recharge. Carnforth to Barrow is 28 and a half miles so this should be fine, with the battery recharging taking place in the platform in Barrow and whilst the electric power is being used from Carnforth to Manchester and back.

 

[adamedwards]

Going further north, would Glasgow Ayr Stranraer work? I'm assuming trains would run direct to Ayr and not via Kilmarnock.