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Are there ways that heritage railways could improve the customer experience in the modern era. Having apps for example?

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eldomtom2

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Surely developing an app is orders of magnitude smaller than restoring a loco or carriage? More like reflooring the tea room or painting a signalbox.
Any sort of AR app, which was the suggestion I was replying to, would be very expensive. Definitely not a volunteer job.

I repeat what I said before - a lot of people in this thread seem to think that an app by virtue of being an app is the way to connect with the "youth", instead of starting with a problem and investigating whether an app would be a good solution.
 
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Falcon1200

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It’s a 10 minute walk down Cemetery Lane at Wymondham no different to getting across Bury or getting across Loughborough,

Having done all 3 walks I would say they are actually very different; Those at Bury and Loughborough are through built up areas, IIRC that at Wymondham was through a field and I only knew where to go by following other enthusiasts. That may be one (but not the only) reason why I have visited the ELR and GCR on multiple occasions, each, and the MNR, just the once.
 

birchesgreen

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The only thing worse than having no app is having a bad app, especially the budget ones which are basically little more than an inferior way to access the data on the website.
 

rf_ioliver

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Having apps for example?​

Oh G*d no...having an "app" gives you nothing...unless you have an actual real problem to solve.

One thing we noticed when visiting the UK last year was that it was almost impossible (Ffestiniog, WHR) to just turn up and have a few hours out. Now you have to buy a full day, package with optional catering; the timing for us was awkard with trains only running on a particular day. We just found it difficult to properly figure out what was actually going on. We visited the WHR station in Caernarfon one afternoon and were surprised to find a train coming in ... didn't see that on the website. A lovely lady who worked there did admit that they no longer catered for "casual visitors"... At the time there were no trains running from Caernarfon to Porthmadoc and back; and anything like doing a loop from Caernarfon-Porthmadoc-Blaenau-Caernarfon (either as a return journey or via Llandudno/Bangor + bus) was an absolute impossibility.

THis was July 2022; admittedly things were getting back after COVID, but not everyone wants an "experience" that needs to be planned and booked in advance
 

Fleetmaster

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An app is the generic name for anything that runs on your phone as a standalone program, and they are as smart or as dumb as you make them. At their dumbest, they are literally your website content presented in Mobile View and in Full Screen mode. But as an innovation of the touchscreen computer / computer in your pocket era, they are obviously capable of so much more.

People might not believe it, but to children right now, downloading an app is as normal (and crucially, as easy) as opening a web page, ESPECIALLY in those situations where you have never before visited the web page of the thing/place/service you are looking for. Much like websites decades ago, them not seeing one when they look for it will be an immediate sign to them that maybe you're a bit of an anachronism and perhaps of no interest to them, which is of course, ironic.

They're not the future, they are the present, and the barriers to innovation are likely not technical but legislative (a situation that should be familiar to any heritage operation that is open to the public).
 

WAO

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I think that we should switch our phones off, put them away and look at the trains etc on a heritage rail site.

I also think that heritage rail sites exist for two, parallel reasons; the first is to educate and entertain the public, the second is to allow enthusiasts to indulge their rail-mounted dreams, often attended by much clutter.

Long may it be so.

WAO
 

CE142

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Majority of Preserved Railways I have been on have no or very little mobile phone signal at all.. So it would be totally pointless having an app to order a cup of tea and some cake from Ada in the Buffet as by the time you managed to get a signal on your phone, you could get off train and walk to the Buffet on the station and get it from Ada in the Buffet anyway.....
 

fgwrich

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Ok, trying to steer this back to the point if the thread (and away from the virtues of an app debate). I rather like the approach the Swanage Railway have taken. They have, in conjunction with Real-time Trains, developed these LCD Screens and are using them at their stations. It is still very much in a heritage style, but doesn’t use that much electricity, offers far more up to date real-time information (including train formations) and can also show local information and advertising for the line and events as well, as well as being far more environmentally friendly than traditional paper posters. An excellent idea!
 

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GusB

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Something like the National Trust app is useful in finding out information relating to opening times etc.

I’m not entirely convinced people are going to go to the bother of downloading one every time they visit a preserved railway. What is going to be on there that the website doesn’t contain?
For organisations like the National Trust (NTS north of the border) and other heritage bodies that have lots of different locations through the land this is probably a worthwhile investment. However, I agree that people aren't necessarily going to download an app for a single visit to a railway that they may not ever visit again.

What might be more useful is if the whole “industry” could produce one giving details of *all* preserved railways. I’d probably use that. I wouldn’t go downloading individual ones as I’ve already got too many apps cluttering up my phone, a whole page just for finances and health related stuff for starters, defo don’t need a whole page of preserved railways.
I quite like this idea - is there an "umbrella" body that heritage railways can be members of?

I'm really not convinced of the need for heritage railways to have apps at all. While things seem to be getting a bit better now, it doesn't seem so long ago that some of them were essentially hobby sites put together by the one member that happens to know how to use a computer.

It's much easier now to put together a website using a ready-made platform whose creators have already figured out how to make the content scalable so that it's viewable on any screen size. I think that's all that's really necessary in most cases.
 

Fleetmaster

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Nobody should have any illusions, phones are part of a child's literal sense of identity these days. You aren't getting them to look up from them without a struggle. Far easier to turn that engagement into an advantage.
I agree that people aren't necessarily going to download an app for a single visit to a railway that they may not ever visit again.
To repeat, this is literally not how young people use apps.

They see a need (such as being told they are going to Railway X), they search for the app, install it and use it.

Searching and installing an app is as easy as searching Google for a website. Arguably it may even be easier, since Google serves you up every conceivable mention of the search time, and not all websites are smart enough to know they are being served to a mobile phone.

Once installed, which takes seconds, they expect the app to be intuitive and genuinely useful, engaging and fun, because that is the the standard. A museum panel in your pocket, is neither engaging or fun.

They do not care whether they never use it again, or will only be using it in six months time, because for all but their daily apps, they simply uninstall it. This is their routine.

These are all one click actions.

One click to open an app store. Type "KWVR". Click the install button. Click to start the app.

Use it.

One click to uninstall.

They live and breathe this stuff. Websites, not so much. Perhaps only for activities deemed very boring, like homework research.
 

eldomtom2

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Nobody should have any illusions, phones are part of a child's literal sense of identity these days. You aren't getting them to look up from them without a struggle. Far easier to turn that engagement into an advantage.
How old are you?
 

Llanigraham

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Harper is correct but there do seem to be a lot of Luddites here who don't either see this or even worse don't want to see it, and will not understand it.

There does seem to be a great deal of misunderstanding of what an app is and what it is for. Generally it isn't so you can order tea and cake from Mrs Miggins in the buffet but to give you additional information about things you are seeing, that previously might have been published in the expensive Guide Book. That is why you now see QR codes besides paintings in museums, or along walks at National Trust venues, or besides particular plants in gardens, or on stands by vehicles in a motor museum. That code is the access to relevant part of the app. And yes it might also allow you to order your cream tea later.

And for information i will be 70 this year! Like it or lump it, a app is then modern way to involve people, to give them information or to keep them coming and spending money.
 

Llanigraham

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I would prefer to hear the voices of the actual youth before making blanket statements about their dislike of websites.

Perhaps we "oldies" have the ear of our children and our grandchildren and know what they like and want.
 

LiftFan

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I would prefer to hear the voices of the actual youth before making blanket statements about their dislike of websites.
As part of the actual youth I prefer a QR code that leads to a mobile friendly website. As I discovered during the lockdown reopenings, it's incredibly tedious to keep downloading apps (most of which end up wanting you to create an account to use the damn thing) when a website is just... there.
 

bramling

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Harper is correct but there do seem to be a lot of Luddites here who don't either see this or even worse don't want to see it, and will not understand it.

Given how some of the current young generation seem to carry on these days, I'm not sure I really want to understand it.

Perhaps I'm fortunate in being just old enough to have experienced life where computers, let alone devices, weren't in common use, however I can see the difference between seeking out information versus having a diet of information spoon-fed. The latter seems to be what we're suggesting here, and it doesn't seem to be particularly healthy. To be absolutely brutally honest, we seem to be breeding a generation of people who seem incapable of thinking for themselves, and this seems to be evidenced by some of the silly things which people seem to do nowadays (especially since Covid).

Don't get me wrong I've got a whole coterie of apps on my phone, however pretty much all of them are associated with performing specific functions (for example finances), or organising data (for example health).

I really cannot see why someone visiting a railway cannot perform a search in Google if they see something of interest and want to find out more.

What comes next? An app telling people how to vote? That's quite a dangerous road to be going down. Just like people who rely on their phone for navigating, then get into a total panic if something goes wrong like their phone dies or the transport system packs up in snow.

The more I think about this, the less I can see the value in the sort of app being suggested. As I said before, I *can* see the value in an umbrella app for organising key information (like the aforementioned National Trust app), but the logistics of this probably make it unviable - requiring the cooperation of every preserved railway, and with the challenge of keeping it all up to date.


a app is then modern way to involve people, to give them information or to keep them coming and spending money.

And there we have it. Quite a manipulative tool when put like that.
 

Dai Corner

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And there we have it. Quite a manipulative tool when put like that.

What do you think about guide books listing future events, or railways selling memberships including free or reduced-priced tickets?
 

Bishopstone

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I left school before the internet was a thing, but must admit, I tend to be on my phone quite a bit when at preserved railways, or other attractions for that matter. Force of habit, and at railways there are lulls whilst trains dwell at stations etc. Is fiddling with the phone any worse than getting the newspaper or a book out?

I'm not sure I'd bother with an App, but I can see WiFi being popular if selected carriages had connectivity. It would let young people upload their experiences near-live to Instagram or TikTok or whatever they use this year. Could be good advertising for the line concerned. I accept this may not be a popular opinion.

My other ask is better coffee from the catering places. If I'm paying £2.50, I'd like more than a small MaxPax instant, please.
 

WAO

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What might appeal more are consistent websites/FB entries etc giving line history and map, location, stock-list, opening dates events and times and society membership/volunteering details. Many sites are excellent but a few aren't complete or haven't been updated for years or are difficult to navigate.

WAO
 

bleeder4

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Part of the appeal of visiting a heritage railway is the "going back in time" effect, so an app would ruin that entirely.

Developing an app is expensive. Heritage railways wouldn't have app developers on their books, so they'd have to contract it out to a third party. In times of tight budgets all round, would that money be better spent elsewhere?
The app will need updating each time there is a change to the timetable. It will need testing each time there is an Android/Apple update, to make sure it still works.
It will need to comply with regulatory requirements. If it allows customers to enter their personal data it will need to comply with GDPR etc.
If people have problems or queries with the app, the railway will need to spend time going back and forth between the customer and the app developer to get the queries resolved.

My point here is that the ongoing maintenance and updating of the app will be a significant expense (both monetary and time). Plus the railway would be entirely dependant on that third party app developer. If they go bust and people can't use the app, it would be the railway that gets all the bad press and negative reviews.
 

Ken H

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Part of the appeal of visiting a heritage railway is the "going back in time" effect, so an app would ruin that entirely.

Developing an app is expensive. Heritage railways wouldn't have app developers on their books, so they'd have to contract it out to a third party. In times of tight budgets all round, would that money be better spent elsewhere?
The app will need updating each time there is a change to the timetable. It will need testing each time there is an Android/Apple update, to make sure it still works.
It will need to comply with regulatory requirements. If it allows customers to enter their personal data it will need to comply with GDPR etc.
If people have problems or queries with the app, the railway will need to spend time going back and forth between the customer and the app developer to get the queries resolved.

My point here is that the ongoing maintenance and updating of the app will be a significant expense (both monetary and time). Plus the railway would be entirely dependant on that third party app developer. If they go bust and people can't use the app, it would be the railway that gets all the bad press and negative reviews.
Whereas you can make a simple website using wordpress, or Wix. But make sure the url is owned and registered to the railway, not a volunteer.
 

James H

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Part of the appeal of visiting a heritage railway is the "going back in time" effect, so an app would ruin that entirely.
On the contrary - allowing users to view contextual / supplementary information on their own devices is potentially a good way of adding educational / historical / practical value to a visit, without the need to put up incongruous modern signage everywhere.

Done well, it means you can preserve the back-in-time atmosphere of the real-world environment of the stations and lineside etc, whilst still fulfilling the educational / museum side of the railway's remit.
 
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