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Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

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AB93

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I did say only a slight surprise. I wondered if Diamond would go for it and whether with the 34-37 and 53/63, that might be enough for Stagecoach to take on with the pressures on depot space/driver resource. However, appreciate that the 91 is one of the stronger performers historically.

Agree with you on the 479 - why Arriva would do that and I just can't see Reptons increasing by that scale.
Indeed - in any case, as of today, both Diamond's and Stagecoach's 91 registrations look to have been accepted by the TC and both definitely include the Monday - Saturday daytime main service.

As per above, it seems Diamond have speculatively registered the 91 and 436 soon after the original announcement by Arriva, with a January start date (matching Arriva's 'the depot would close by the end of the year'), while subsequently, Stagecoach have basically gone all out for everything with a transition from the next day. I guess if you're going all out, you may as well go for the 91 and as I say, this will improve the 34/35 proposition for them. It also gives them a bit of a critical mass that they are essentially now taking over the Arriva (commercial) network, which will no doubt help attract some staff over.

Like you say, the 479 is probably not a priority and that alongside no 18, no 436, no A helps shave enough off that they must feel the 91 is worth going for alongside the others.

What happens now, who knows! Diamond would probably do well to take the 436 and run. Weybridge for the 436 is closer to them than trying to run a fairly intensive (91) service from absolutely miles away in Stanwell. It can't sustain two operators.
 
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SouthEastBuses

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That is the stuff of pure fantasy, what would be in it for Arriva to even bother with coming to such arrangements, particularly when the main, commercial routes are already being picked off one by one with no arrangements?

The 479 makes more sense at Stagecoach anyway, considering they already run the Sunday service. Reptons was just a speculation I wouldn't rule out, but imo, Stagecoach should run the 479
 

Lynford1976

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Indeed - in any case, as of today, both Diamond's and Stagecoach's 91 registrations look to have been accepted by the TC and both definitely include the Monday - Saturday daytime main service.

As per above, it seems Diamond have speculatively registered the 91 and 436 soon after the original announcement by Arriva, with a January start date (matching Arriva's 'the depot would close by the end of the year'), while subsequently, Stagecoach have basically gone all out for everything with a transition from the next day. I guess if you're going all out, you may as well go for the 91 and as I say, this will improve the 34/35 proposition for them. It also gives them a bit of a critical mass that they are essentially now taking over the Arriva (commercial) network, which will no doubt help attract some staff over.

Like you say, the 479 is probably not a priority and that alongside no 18, no 436, no A helps shave enough off that they must feel the 91 is worth going for alongside the others.

What happens now, who knows! Diamond would probably do well to take the 436 and run. Weybridge for the 436 is closer to them than trying to run a fairly intensive (91) service from absolutely miles away in Stanwell. It can't sustain two operators.

Do Mercedes-Benz still put money into the 436, given it passes their Brooklands complex? If so, will the new operator continue to run Mercedes buses?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The 479 makes more sense at Stagecoach anyway, considering they already run the Sunday service. Reptons was just a speculation I wouldn't rule out, but imo, Stagecoach should run the 479
It might make sense but in a time of limited space and driver resources, it would make much more sense to Stagecoach to focus on the much more lucrative pickings on offer. They may well go for the full tender but if they elected not to, you could definitely understand their reasoning.

As for Reptons - I would rule it out. Nice little outfit as they are, it is quite a step up for a firm running 3 or 4 buses on pleasant off peak services comprising self-contained boards built around schools, and taking on a four vehicle, intensively worked interurban route.

What happens now, who knows! Diamond would probably do well to take the 436 and run. Weybridge for the 436 is closer to them than trying to run a fairly intensive (91) service from absolutely miles away in Stanwell. It can't sustain two operators.
I tend to agree with you. It might not be surprise seeing Diamond cancelling the 91 registration. The 436 should be enough of a win for them
 
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Kieran1990

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Looks like Stagecoach are going to take up most of Arriva’s operations in Guildford- Surrey CC have announced it on forthcoming timetables page

“18 December 2021​

Arriva​

  • 34/35/134/135 - Taken over by Stagecoach with increased service on Saturdays. All journeys numbered 34 or 35
  • 36/37 - Withdrawn - see Stagecoach services 1 and 6
  • 47 - Taken over by Stagecoach
  • 53 - Taken over by Stagecoach with increased service on Saturdays
  • 63 - Taken over by Stagecoach
  • 91 - Taken over by Stagecoach with increased service on Saturdays and Sundays

Stagecoach​

  • 1 (Guildford) - Extended daily from Guildford town centre to Epsom Road and Merrow (Bushy Hill Drive) to partly replace Arriva services 36/37. This will give a through service across Guildford to the station, hospital and university.
  • 6 - New daily service from Guildford town centre via London Road, Burpham and Glendale Drive to Merrow Park, to partly replace Arriva services 36/37”
 

GusB

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I realise that the breakup of the Arriva operations in Surrey is inevitably going to involve some discussion about other operators, and I have no issue with this. However, speculation about which vehicles will be used goes beyond the scope of this thread. If there is an existing thread for an operator that's taking over some of the routes, please use that for ongoing discussion concerning that company. If there is no existing thread, please start a new one.
 

Flange Squeal

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There's a map showing how the extended route 1 and new route 6 fit in regards to the current 36 and 37 circulars available on this blog which might be helpful for those outside the area not familiar with the routes. Depending on your browser, if you right click the picture and choose "Open in new tab", it seems to load a full size version.


The last blog post covered the news that Stagecoach have registered a number of replacements for to-be-withdrawn Arriva services, from Saturday 18th December. While no timetables have yet been released, we do now know a little bit more about what the service offering will be.

  • 34/35/134/135: Guildford to Camberley
    The current 134/135 numbers, used to denote school day variants, will no longer be used, with all journeys numbered either 34 or 35. The current reduced Saturday frequency of hourly on each route will be be increased, presumably to match the weekday two 34 and one 35 per hour, offering three buses per hour over the common sections Guildford – Woking – St. John’s – Knaphill – Bisley – West End – Lightwater – Bagshot – Camberley.
  • 53: Guildford to Ewhurst
    Saturday service increased, presumably reintroducing the Cranleigh ‘shorts’ to offer three buses per hour over the Guildford – Shalford – Bramley – Wonersh – Shamley Green – Rowly – Cranleigh section, in conjunction with the existing hourly 53 journeys to Ewhurst and hourly route 63 to Horsham.
  • 91: Woking to Knaphill
    (Pirbright evenings, Guildford Sundays)
    Weekend frequencies increased, presumably the Saturday service up from half-hourly to every 15 minutes (or at least the reintroduction of the subsidised evening Knaphill ‘shorts’ alongside the hourly Pirbright journeys to offer a half-hourly evening service Woking to Knaphill), and on Sundays the reintroduction of the subsidised Knaphill ‘shorts’ to offer a half- hourly service Woking – Goldsworth Park – Knaphill.
These frequency reductions were implemented by Arriva as a result of the pandemic and, unlike most local operators, these have remained at their reduced levels.

While Stagecoach’s replacements for Arriva routes 34, 35, 47, 53, 63 and 91 look to be largely like-for-like, more information of the registered route 6 to replace the 36/37 town circulars is also now available. Currently the 36 and 37 cover the same roads in a loop, with the 36 running clockwise and the 37 running anti-clockwise. Surrey County Council (SCC)’s website has given a little more information, which seems to indicate that the 6 will cover the northern half of the loop in both directions running Guildford – Burpham – Merrow Park, with the southern section of the loop being covered by an eastern extension of their current route 1 (Guildford – University of Surrey – Surrey Sports Park – Royal Surrey Council Hospital – Stoughton). This would offer a link across town linking the hospital and university with the Epsom Road and Merrow (Bushy Hill).

Stagecoach’s route 1 currently interworks with route 2, to form a loop running Guildford – University of Surrey – Royal Surrey County Hospital – Rydes Hill (route 1 becomes 2) – Stoughton – Guildford, and vice versa. Therefore assuming this arrangement continues, this would essentially create a Guildford – Stoughton (route 2 becomes 1) – Rydes Hill – Royal Surrey County Hospital – Surrey Sports Park – University of Surrey – Guildford – Epsom Road – Merrow (Bushy Hill) service.

New route 6 is listed as running Guildford – Burpham – Merrow Park. It is unclear at this stage if it will serve the small loop off the London Road around Weylea Avenue/Sutherland Drive, or complete the full loop to meet their extended 1 at Merrow (Bushy Hill). The fact the 6 has Merrow Park listed as its terminus, rather than Bushy Hill, makes me think the full loop might indeed not be linked (interworking would seem unlikely regardless for reliability). If the 6 terminates at Merrow Park’s Kingfisher Drive Shops bus stop and turns on the roundabout there, it would leave two stops unserved by former 36/37 loop buses – Partridge Way on Park Lane, and Merrow Church on Epsom Road. If buses continue beyond the shops to serve Park Lane and turn at Merrow roundabout, it would just leave Merrow Church unserved by the route 36/37 replacement 1/6 services. However that stop is also served by routes 25, 463, 478 and 479 into Guildford, and as yet we don’t know who will be taking on the 479 tender, so we may still see Stagecoach serve it Mondays to Saturdays (beyond just a daily school bus) yet.

We will obviously know more as timetables become available, but in the meantime below are some scribblings on Google Maps showing the existing Stagecoach 1/2 (solid red line) and Arriva 36/37 (solid green line), alongside the extended 1 (dashed red line) and new route 6 (dashed blue line). These are the presumed routings based on what we know so far, so may turn out to be not 100%. As more is known about the timetables of these and the futures of routes 18, 479, Sunday 3 and single morning 28 trip, this will of course be posted in future blog postings. We understand that invitations have now been sent out by the council to operators for routes 18 and 479, with submissions for those required next week. Hopefully though, this rough illustration gives an idea of the geography we are talking about for now.
 
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AB93

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An addition this evening to the Surrey County Council Forthcoming Changes page is that Arriva's Guildford service A will be withdrawn early, from 14th November.

This is not a huge surprise given, going off their Twitter, it's already being subject to significant cancellations due to no driver. You wonder if we may see any other routes 'fall early,' as it were - certainly similar depot closures in the area in recent years have ended up with huge amounts of lost mileage in the last few weeks as drivers have already left.
 

SouthEastBuses

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An addition this evening to the Surrey County Council Forthcoming Changes page is that Arriva's Guildford service A will be withdrawn early, from 14th November.

This is not a huge surprise given, going off their Twitter, it's already being subject to significant cancellations due to no driver. You wonder if we may see any other routes 'fall early,' as it were - certainly similar depot closures in the area in recent years have ended up with huge amounts of lost mileage in the last few weeks as drivers have already left.

The A is not too bad - you at least have the 1, 4 and 5 as an alternative. It would concern me if it was something like the 479, for example.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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An addition this evening to the Surrey County Council Forthcoming Changes page is that Arriva's Guildford service A will be withdrawn early, from 14th November.

This is not a huge surprise given, going off their Twitter, it's already being subject to significant cancellations due to no driver. You wonder if we may see any other routes 'fall early,' as it were - certainly similar depot closures in the area in recent years have ended up with huge amounts of lost mileage in the last few weeks as drivers have already left.
Depot closures generally see this as some drivers elect not to transfer and have so little redundo due, they just look elsewhere early. The difference is usually, there are other depots nearby to cover and there's not a massive industry wide shortage.
 

Surreyman

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The A is not too bad - you at least have the 1, 4 and 5 as an alternative. It would concern me if it was something like the 479, for example.
The A won't be missed (It's my nearest bus stop!), it's the obvious service to pull, you could argue that the Hospital is over bussed, will be interesting to see if Safeguard increase frequencies on 4/5.
The 479 is the interesting one maybe going to end up as a fully tendered service?
 

Flange Squeal

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The 479 is the interesting one maybe going to end up as a fully tendered service?
Invitations went out earlier this week for emergency contracts lasting until next September 2022 for the 18 (reduced frequency but extended route) and 479 (as now), with interested operators having until Tuesday next week to submit their responses.
 
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Kieran1990

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Invitations went out earlier this week for emergency contracts lasting until next September 2022 for the 18 (reduced frequency but extended route) and 479 (as now), with interested operators having until Tuesday next week to submit their responses.
How much further could the 18 be extended?
onto the hospital?
 

Flange Squeal

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SouthEastBuses

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Luton

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Extending the 1 to and from Merrow is a very silly idea. It just complicates the timetable and makes the service more unreliable. Instead they should do the same thing that they have done with the 6 to Burpham and run it as a separate service. Maybe number it the 7 and just run it as its own service between Merrow and the town centre. Only very few people need to travel from Merrow to the University and Hospital and Stoughton so it is not like it needs a direct service.
 

Kieran1990

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The tender has it extended to Merrow via Weylea, covering parts of the 36/37 that Stagecoach’s new 6 doesn’t.

The new Stagecoach timetables can now be found at https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south/new-guildford-network
Extending the 1 to and from Merrow is a very silly idea. It just complicates the timetable and makes the service more unreliable. Instead they should do the same thing that they have done with the 6 to Burpham and run it as a separate service. Maybe number it the 7 and just run it as its own service between Merrow and the town centre. Only very few people need to travel from Merrow to the University and Hospital and Stoughton so it is not like it needs a direct service.
Spent the best part of a decade suffering from the rush shambles of the 36/37 when they were a part of the cross town network under Arriva
Guildford’s ring road used to see the service fall apart on a morning and a evening, let’s say traffic in burpham would effect grange park.
i like the idea of cross urban services but they sadly fall victim to the bus getting same priority as the car on the roads. Something I see all to often now up in
Leeds
 

SouthEastBuses

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Extending the 1 to and from Merrow is a very silly idea. It just complicates the timetable and makes the service more unreliable. Instead they should do the same thing that they have done with the 6 to Burpham and run it as a separate service. Maybe number it the 7 and just run it as its own service between Merrow and the town centre. Only very few people need to travel from Merrow to the University and Hospital and Stoughton so it is not like it needs a direct service.

I agree. The 36/37 should have stayed as they are currently but renumbered as routes 6 and 7, and the 1/2 should have also stayed as they are currently. To ease confusion, I would renumber all clockwise journeys as route 1, all anticlockwise journeys as route 2, and the Monday-Friday Guildford Bus Station-Manor Park via University shorts as the 1A.
 

Surreyman

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As someone who used to live on the 36/37, Merrow was always a bigger traffic generator than Burpham, so I understand the apparent logic of extending the 1 to Merrow, however as other posters have said, traffic congestion in central Guildford will make this unreliable.
I would argue that traffic is worse around school times, so in the afternoon, the 3-4pm period is worse than 5-6 as the 'school run' is under way, also all the Plumbers/builders/electricians head for home at this time. The A3 southbound is often a 'wall' of traffic at this time, with the 2-lane section at crawl speed all the way to the Hogsback.
Town centre traffic congestion is particularly bad in the pre - christmas season - November/December, with Onslow St/the Gyratory system, Commercial Rd & Woodbridge road often gridlocked, with buses taking ages just to exit the Friary bus station.
 

AB93

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The A won't be missed (It's my nearest bus stop!), it's the obvious service to pull, you could argue that the Hospital is over bussed, will be interesting to see if Safeguard increase frequencies on 4/5.
The 479 is the interesting one maybe going to end up as a fully tendered service?
The 479 is already fully supported.
 

Flange Squeal

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Falcon have also registered a replacement for the Woking/Weybridge 436.


Edit: Must have been typing this at the same time as @LUYMun :lol:
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Falcon Buses have registered route 436 - now it seems that Diamond's unplanned registrations are less likely to go ahead.

Falcon have also registered a replacement for the Woking/Weybridge 436.


Edit: Must have been typing this at the same time as @LUYMun :lol:
I had thought that Falcon would be best placed for the 436 and thought they'd been beaten to it by Diamond. However, does look like Falcon will have it.
 

Cesarcollie

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I had thought that Falcon would be best placed for the 436 and thought they'd been beaten to it by Diamond. However, does look like Falcon will have it.

Of course, there may be a period of competition, inevitably unsustainable, but dependant on who blinks first.....
 

MotCO

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Of course, there may be a period of competition, inevitably unsustainable, but dependant on who blinks first.....

I suspect there was never any intention to compete over these routes -it is just operators dipping their toes in the water and seeing who thinks they are in the best position to provide the service.
 

317 forever

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Once Arriva close Guildford, they will be largely absent from areas west and south west of London. From what I can tell, if we look at everywhere beyond Greater London reached by a direct train from Waterloo, we will only see Arriva buses in Epsom and Reading. These are route 166 to Croydon, which could be lost to another operator through future TfL route tendering, and routes 800 & 850 to High Wycombe resoectively.

This list might not be comprehensive, but the following Arriva bus operations will have been divested or closed:-

Scotland West - now McGills

Berwick - now part of WCM Borders Buses (although Arriva still reach Berwick from Newcastle)
Hexham - now part of Go North East (although Arriva still run some journeys on route 685 from Newcastle to Carlisle via Hexham)
Yorkshire Tiger - now Transdev Team Pennine

Gillmoss - now part of Stagecoach (although Arriva still serve much of the area)

Wardle Transport - now part of Centrebus D&G
Cannock - now part of Centrebus D&G
Burton - now part of Midland Classic (although Arriva still reach Burton from Derby)
Wednesbury - formerly Midland, now part of Rotala Diamond (although Arriva still reach Wolverhampton from Bridgnorth)

Crawley & Horsham - now part of Go-Ahead Metrobus
Guildford - soon to close, mainly replaced by additional Stagecoach services

They have also pulled out of parts of Cheshire, north Surrey and Aberystwyth, with services replaced by a mixture of other operators
 
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