AS Railcard

[Ivo]

Firstly, before anyone mentions it, I know that Death once posted a thread for Asperger Syndrome and various hoo-hahs to do with it. But, given it's an old thread, I thought that it would be better to start afresh.

Anyway, I have a question. If those of us with AS can qualify for a concessionary bus pass [until Saturday I had assumed Southend council were just lenient, to be fair], why are we seemingly unable to qualify for a Disabled Persons' Railcard? If I'm just missing a point, and we can qualify, then sorry; however, the regulations suggest that the holder must find it difficult to access trains. This may seem like an odd theory, but surely the provision of such a Railcard - even if it had a lesser discount, say 20% - would encourage us to go out into the open? How can it be fair that the Railcard is restricted to those with physical disabilities (or extreme Learning Difficulties)?

 

[90019]

But where would you draw the line?

 

[Ivo]

That's why I'm proposing a lesser Railcard, i.e. a Disabled Person's Railcard B. For "lesser" disabilities that theoretically have no real need for assistance, but whether the presence of a subsidy/benefit would still be useful. The theory is that being able to travel at a lower cost should encourage us to "mingle" with other peopl, whereas usually we would simply keep to ourselves.

 

[ukrob]

As 90019 said, where do you draw the line? What about other people who struggle to get about who don't have a physical disability? Why AS but not serious clinical depression for example?

 

[90019]

The theory is that being able to travel at a lower cost should encourage us to "mingle" with other peopl, whereas usually we would simply keep to ourselves.

What about those of us who aren't exactly socially active, but don't have/haven't been diagnosed with AS or anything like that?

 

[Ivo]

The following guidelines, as suggested in the Transport Act 2000, should be reasonable enough:

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:...ansport+act+2000+146&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[taken from Stockton-on-Tees council]

People who already qualify stay at 34%, others bound by these guidelines that have permanent issues - ruling out depression etc, which isn't covered anyway - get the lower 20% concession.

With regards to those who "don't get out much", is it because you find social situations difficult, like we do? If yes, is there a reason?

...I don't mean to be arrogant with this. I just don't see how it's fair that we get one but not the other, simply because "we are able to step onto a train without assistance".

 

[90019]

With regards to those who "don't get out much", is it because you find social situations difficult, like we do? If yes, is there a reason?

Personally; yes, and yes.

If you want to go into any more detail, send me a pm, I'd rather not discuss it here

 

[ukrob]

The following guidelines, as suggested in the Transport Act 2000, should be reasonable enough:

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:...ansport+act+2000+146&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[taken from Stockton-on-Tees council]

People who already qualify stay at 34%, others bound by these guidelines that have permanent issues - ruling out depression etc, which isn't covered anyway - get the lower 20% concession.

With regards to those who "don't get out much", is it because you find social situations difficult, like we do? If yes, is there a reason?

...I don't mean to be arrogant with this. I just don't see how it's fair that we get one but not the other, simply because "we are able to step onto a train without assistance".

Why? Depression is a serious illness. Properly diagnosed depression can be very different to someone having a bad day at work, coming home and saying "I'm depressed with my job".

 

[Ivo]

Well... Fine. Either way. Depression just seems like an odd example, although I do realise how serious it can be sometimes. Anyway, do any other Aspies agree with me on this, or am I simply being optimistic? [Do remember I won't have any such use for such a Railcard for some time, given I have a 16-25 one anyway.]

 

[Nick W]

Anyway, do any other Aspies agree with me on this, or am I simply being optimistic?

I would have to say no, on the grounds that AS is no impedance to travelling.

If you are having trouble socialising, I would suggest that you give up talking to people who make no effort to talk to you, talk over you, call your fulfilling activities and interests eccentric and enjoy idle-chatter in which they idolise celebrities, clothes, film stars and artists. If you look closer around, I'm sure you will find people willing to show an interest in your more fulfilling activities and relevant chatter and who enjoy a much more educated discussion. In fact, try engaging with people from other nationalities who tend to be far more friendly and welcoming and less judgemental than what I'd sadly have to call the average Brit.

 

[theblackwatch]

In fact, try engaging with people from other nationalities who tend to be far more friendly and welcoming and less judgemental than what I'd sadly have to call the average Brit.

I have to agree with that statement. I'm currently on holiday in Switzerland - yesterday, I was talking with my friend at a station and a Swiss chap joined in, asking (in English) about where we were visiting. I cannot imagine many brits making an effort to talk to a stranger in a foreign language on a station in the UK.

 

[Daniel]

I have AS and don't qualify for my council's freedom pass scheme... so just be glad you have that =D

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What I don't understand, and please note I don't mean any offence if it comes across, is that why would somebody with difficulty in social situations need subsidised train travel?

 

[Tom B]

I think the allocation of concessionary passes for free bus travel etc is done on the grounds of anyone with a stubbed toe upwards gets one!

 

[nedchester]

Most trainspotters would end up with an Aspergers Syndrome railcard!!!!

Maybe just call it the Rail Enthusiasts Railcard?!

(Sorry to be flippant!)

 

[jayjay]

I have AS and I can do life normally. Socially, I find things a little more difficult than some others but I can cope with most situations fine. I don't need a railcard for that (or a bus pass for that matter). Glad there isn't one. Besides, I've got a 16-25 railcard already.

 

[transportphoto]

I don't need a railcard for that (or a bus pass for that matter).

But I bet you would use the Bus Pass if you could get one - at least every now and again!!! lol!

 

[aspierail]

I have Asperger's Syndrome and i used to have a disabled persons railcard but i don't really travel out of london that much so therefore my freedom pass to me is very useful when i go out to other places in the london area.

 

[Dolive22]

For a moment I was surprised to find 6 people with AS in one place, but then I remembered this was an online message board about trains.

I am a bit surprised that those with severe mental disabilities get a railcard. Many of them have enough trouble with the cafeteria at college, let alone the ticket restricions that come with a railcard ticket. It seems almost mean. Why not just scrap it for them, with the TOCs paying higher premium (or getting paid less subsidy) and the government tack a bit extra on whatever they call the disability benefits this week?

Depression can be very serious. But I'm not sure a discount would have much effect on whether they go somewhere.

 

[ukrob]

For a moment I was surprised to find 6 people with AS in one place, but then I remembered this was an online message board about trains.

I am a bit surprised that those with severe mental disabilities get a railcard. Many of them have enough trouble with the cafeteria at college, let alone the ticket restricions that come with a railcard ticket. It seems almost mean. Why not just scrap it for them, with the TOCs paying higher premium (or getting paid less subsidy) and the government tack a bit extra on whatever they call the disability benefits this week?

Depression can be very serious. But I'm not sure a discount would have much effect on whether they go somewhere.

It was me that mentioned depression, just as an example to ask the OP where to draw the line. I don't think people with AS or depression should have a railcard.

 

[transportphoto]

Are children able to get a national bus pass if they have a learning 'disability'?

 

[Ivo]

I believe so, but they would receive a "caretaker" pass (or whatever it's called), entitling them to free accompanied travel in their local authority area. Which is great if you're in Cornwall, but in places like Reading...

 

[Tom B]

I think the ENCC passes are ostensibly issued to anybody who would be refused a driving license on the grounds of their condition.

However, I think it is ever so slightly abused - the number of neds who run for the bus then produce a disability pass is astounding.

 

[Ivo]

I think the ENCC passes are ostensibly issued to anybody who would be refused a driving license on the grounds of their condition.

However, I think it is ever so slightly abused - the number of neds who run for the bus then produce a disability pass is astounding.

I'm not sure what exactly is meant by "neds" but I would add that it has enabled me to become a bit less of an "outcast" in society. It's like a ticket to freedom that an Aspie would not usually otherwise have, which they would have with ease minus AS.

 

[transportphoto]

I think the ENCC passes are ostensibly issued to anybody who would be refused a driving license on the grounds of their condition.

However, I think it is ever so slightly abused - the number of neds who run for the bus then produce a disability pass is astounding.

What about those eligible who have a minor 'learning disability' like Aspergers Synd.
They may not have any physical disability's - but they are still officially aloud to have a pass.

 

[Oswyntail]

If you look at the link that the OP posted you will see what a minefield this is:-

The Transport Act 2000 defines a qualifying 'disabled person' as someone who is:

* is blind or partially sighted

This at once introduces a measure that is impossible to define. I am "Partially sighted" but wear corrective spectacles (along with millions). If my glasses broke, I would be severely incapacitated - would I be eligible for a temporary pass?

* is profoundly or severely deaf

Again, quantify "severely". Impairment in a concert violinist would have more impact for her than the same level in a trappist monk!

* is without speech

Totally? Able to communicate through speech but with difficulty (as in some extremely deaf people?)

* has a disability, or has suffered an injury, which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to walk

Someone with heart trouble has difficulty walking any distance - would they be eligible?

* does not have arms or has long-term loss of the use of both arms

Almost an objective measure - but what is long-term?

* has a learning disability, that is, a state of arrested or incomplete development of mind which includes significant impairment of intelligence and social functioning

This could be a whole chapter in itself. Autism (of which AS is one manifestation) is still only poorly defined and understood, but it does not seem to be an "arrested or incomplete development of mind". Nor do other learning disabilities, necessarily.

* would, if applied for the grant of a licence to drive a motor vehicle under Part III of the Road Traffic Act 1988, have an application refused pursuant to section 92 of that Act (physical fitness) otherwise than on the ground of persistent misuse of drugs or alcohol.

And finally, passing the buck to another piece of legislation.
I do not mean to belittle AS or any other disability. But you only have to look at the almost complete lack of objective criteria for assessing disabilities to realise that selecting any group for receipt of a benefit of any type is impossible to achieve fairly. (In another incarnation I am involved in disability sports assessments, and that makes this particular minefield look like a playground!). Far better (if more costly, less practicable etc) is to assess each case on its merits.

 

[transportphoto]

I believe so, but they would receive a "caretaker" pass (or whatever it's called), entitling them to free accompanied travel in their local authority area. Which is great if you're in Cornwall, but in places like Reading...

I have just spoken to my local council and they have confirmed that children would be able to travel alone. True or Not don't know cause she just fired answers at me. lol

 

[Helvellyn]

Oswyntail, by what you've quoted there then nightclubs should be providing free transport home for people at chucking out time.

As to the question of who is, and is not, entitled to a Disabled Persons railcard I agree with others who have said where does the line get drawn?

 

[tbtc]

As to the question of who is, and is not, entitled to a Disabled Persons railcard I agree with others who have said where does the line get drawn?

Impossible to draw a line. Most conditions exist on a spectrum where its not as black/white as saying someone is 'ill' / 'sick'

I've a long term physical condition (drugs for life, previous operations, no cure) - I hide it well and get by. Other people have had the same operations and are on the same medication and are signed off work long term.

Even stating bare medical facts doesn't mean two people will be the same deep down.

Whilst I'm not saying we should hand out free passes like sweeties, there is an argument that giving someone a pass and enabling them to live a 'normal' life (hold down a job etc) is a lot cheaper than paying them long term incapacity benefits

 

[90019]

It's like a ticket to freedom that an Aspie would not usually otherwise have, which they would have with ease minus AS.

Don't assume that's automatically the case.