ASLEF strikes W/c 6th May

[GordonT]

And that's just one (of many) reasons why he has been such a p*ss poor PM.

Indeed.

 

[Facing Back]

I think that back in the real world the ship has long since sailed on any tiny chance of him keeping his job post election. Industrial relations problems affecting the railways will barely be on his personal radar.

You beat me to it

And that's just one (of many) reasons why he has been such a p*ss poor PM.

I'm a natural Conservative voter - and feel free to stick pins into a wax doll of me - and i actually think Richie Sunak is working hard with the very bad hand dealt to him. I am very convinced that the parliamentary Conservative Party really needs a couple of terms out of office - they are ungovernable.

I look forward to seeing how the industrial relations and the modernisation agenda moves forward. Its badly broken now regardless of your ideology so lets see.

 

[Russel]

Well Sunak must now realise what he is doing isn't working and he needs big changes if he is to have even a tiny chance of keeping his job post election. Sorting these type of disputes and allowing the country to experience growth is maybe something he will now have to embrace, something has to change. After all, it would be madness to keep the current direction of travel.

The damage has already been done, whatever he does now will be too little, too late...

Thinking things will change this side of a GE is delusional.

Maybe, just maybe I'm wrong but I very much doubt it.

 

[dk1]

I think that back in the real world the ship has long since sailed on any tiny chance of him keeping his job post election. Industrial relations problems affecting the railways will barely be on his personal radar.

Strange they suddenly want to meet up with ASLEF after more than a year though. Anything to do with certain senior departures from the RDG/DfT?

Blowing smoke up the unions posterior? Not much trust with anything the RDG says or does.

 

[richfoz84]

I think Aslef need to “shock the system” now and call a strike for every Saturday all summer. It will never happen, but I think it would really make the government sit up & take note! Leisure travel is booming, so hit those days.

 

[Class 170101]

But Overground drivers have nothing to do with him (we'll find out if it's still him later today). They're employed by Arriva Rail London, which isn't a subsidiary of TfL.

ARL have to report to him though

 

[BPN2022]

Looks like the overtime ban has started a day early in the North West. Extreme amount of cancellations on Northern in the Blackpool/Preston area.

 

[Russel]

I think Aslef need to “shock the system” now and call a strike for every Saturday all summer. It will never happen, but I think it would really make the government sit up & take note! Leisure travel is booming, so hit those days.

We've had two years of strike action that has achieved nothing, you can't seriously think this would now work, given the current government know they will be gone within 6 months...

 

[Goldfish62]

ARL have to report to him though

No they don't. The contractual relationship is with Rail for London, a Subsidiary of TfL. And that's all it is. A contractual relationship.

If the Mayor wants to lay down minimum thresholds for pay and conditions that will have to be specified in the ITT when the contract is retendered and bidders will price it into their bids accordingly.

 

[43096]

Well Sunak must now realise what he is doing isn't working and he needs big changes if he is to have even a tiny chance of keeping his job post election. Sorting these type of disputes and allowing the country to experience growth is maybe something he will now have to embrace, something has to change. After all, it would be madness to keep the current direction of travel.

The railway really does have an overblown sense of self importance when it comes to what influences an election.

And that's just one (of many) reasons why he has been such a p*ss poor PM.

There’s many reasons why he may be a poor PM, but industrial relations on the railway barely registers in the grand scheme of things.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looks like the overtime ban has started a day early in the North West. Extreme amount of cancellations on Northern in the Blackpool/Preston area.

It's a Sunday of a bank holiday weekend, a quite sunny clear day, was going to be bad with or without overtime ban.

 

[theironroad]

Strange they suddenly want to meet up with ASLEF after more than a year though. Anything to do with certain senior departures from the RDG/DfT?

Blowing smoke up the unions posterior? Not much trust with anything the RDG says or does.

Who left? Was it a certain high ranking DfT man who made some very high profile remarks about rail unions a few years back?

I had wondered if the recent appointment of the MD of Scotland's Railway (was a joint Scotrail/Network rail appointment) to senior post in the DfT was having some bearing a movement, considering he's generally widely respected and has experience at TOC level too.

 

[Llandudno]

Bank holiday Sunday, warm sunny weather and all services to/from St Anne’s on Sea and Blackpool South suspended owing to ‘a short notice change to the timetable’…

aka no staff willing to work overtime - not that I blame them!

 

[12LDA28C]

Just like all the other FOCs.

7% ish across the board.

Indeed, but the other FOCs aren't Government-owned.

I'm not sure that would make a difference at this point. With slot of office based staff able to WFH the political pressure to settle would be less and with Tories expecting to out of power where would the incentive to settle be?

The incentive to do so would be to settle just before the election and make Labour pay for it.

 

[dk1]

Who left? Was it a certain high ranking DfT man who made some very high profile remarks about rail unions a few years back?

I had wondered if the recent appointment of the MD of Scotland's Railway (was a joint Scotrail/Network rail appointment) to senior post in the DfT was having some bearing a movement, considering he's generally widely respected and has experience at TOC level too.

Montgomery & Wilkinson where the two I was thinking about.

 

[theironroad]

Montgomery & Wilkinson where the two I was thinking about.

Wilkinson is the one I guessed. If they're both out of the equation then certainly that would remove some roadblocks.

 

[whoosh]

I'm interested to see what the next administration makes of the need to modernise and take cost out. I'm interested in their approach to increasing productivity more broadly as well.

My guess is that they won't see eye to eye with ASLEF but whether they are willing to push it is a different matter - I'm quite sure it won't be a priority.

I wonder if there is middle ground there if there is less antipathy? A less invasive change to working practices?

Just to point out that Transport for Wales has changed Driver's T&Cs to be more productive (including placing Sundays in the working week) - but did so by adopting approach of negotiation.



With a change of Government, there is hope for a new attitude. One in which proper negotiations can take place to move our railway forward.

 

[DMckduck97]

Just to point out that Transport for Wales has changed Driver's T&Cs to be more productive (including placing Sundays in the working week) - but did so by adopting approach of negotiation.



With a change of Government, there is hope for a new attitude. One in which proper negotiations can take place to move our railway forward.

Is there a ballpark percentage for how many more Drivers would be required to bring Sundays into the working week?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Absolutely no chance of them being cancelled

Thanks for confirming. I thought that was the case.

See you on the pickets.

Is there a ballpark percentage for how many more Drivers would be required to bring Sundays into the working week?

At the very minimum about 15% more. Think of in the basics (without rostering/link generation) of 1 in 7, since a driver’s contract is generally about 35 hrs a week split over 4 shifts.

If you want to include Sundays, that would mean all drivers dropping a day elsewhere.
Then you have to factor in rest day patterns, extra drivers for more services, because 1 train isn’t just driven by one driver per day… it starts to add up.

 

[Krokodil]

Do you really thing that these results will make a difference to this negotiation?

Anything could happen. The government could make a last-ditch attempt to cut the strings (as they did with RMT) and settle to avoid "Tories aren't working" posters. Or they might decide to leave some kind of time bomb behind for the next government. All bets are off.

Is there a ballpark percentage for how many more Drivers would be required to bring Sundays into the working week?

Depends upon what you want a Sunday service to look like, but as a rule you'd need to increase establishments by a sixth, because you're stretching a six day roster into a seven day one. Alternatively you could cut back on the weekday service to cover Sundays, this might be an option for some of the London and South East operators if peak demand never returns (you might even consider cutting Monday and Friday peak extras for example). That said, a major recruitment and training drive is needed anyway, an entire generation is coming up to retirement age.

 

[fishwomp]

I tend to agree. I suspect the window for influencing the current government has closed.

ASLEF's strategy of keeping the dispute in the public eye with the occasional strike and waiting for the next government seems to make sense.

Reducing the take home pay your membership gets for a few months knowing in it will not cannot change the outcome until the next government comes along?

If that's sense, I don't know what crazy would be.

I think Aslef need to “shock the system” now and call a strike for every Saturday all summer. It will never happen, but I think it would really make the government sit up & take note! Leisure travel is booming, so hit those days.

"Hit those days" is hitting the user who cannot do anything to solve your problem.. well done. We will soon be talking about trainless drivers not driverless trains if that's the mentality.

An election is coming, why not put energy into convincing the next government that this issue is top of the list? Oh...

 

[DMckduck97]

Depends upon what you want a Sunday service to look like, but as a rule you'd need to increase establishments by a sixth, because you're stretching a six day roster into a seven day one. Alternatively you could cut back on the weekday service to cover Sundays, this might be an option for some of the London and South East operators if peak demand never returns (you might even consider cutting Monday and Friday peak extras for example). That said, a major recruitment and training drive is needed anyway, an entire generation is coming up to retirement age.

I suspect we are also still yet to see the true effects of the training pause due to covid until a mass retirement at some TOCS which like you say, is long overdue.

 

[ComUtoR]

"Hit those days" is hitting the user who cannot do anything to solve your problem.. well done.

The user does have the power to make change. The Gov is there to serve its electorate. Make your voice heard and vote accordingly. In the short term why not contact your local MP and have them raise it ? You could start a expedition to ask that the Gov stop the strikes and agree to put the pay talks in the hands of each TOC. The user does have the power but apathy is winning.

 

[dk1]

I suspect we are also still yet to see the true effects of the training pause due to covid until a mass retirement at some TOCS which like you say, is long overdue.

As said many times, unlike most other TOCs training at GA never stopped (apart from a few weeks) and hence why regardless of any mass retirement, we have not & will not be affected should that happen.

 

[fishwomp]

The user does have the power to make change. The Gov is there to serve its electorate. Make your voice heard and vote accordingly. In the short term why not contact your local MP and have them raise it ? You could start a expedition to ask that the Gov stop the strikes and agree to put the pay talks in the hands of each TOC. The user does have the power but apathy is winning.

It's seems now obvious what is going to happen whenever the elections are held.. also, my MP is Labour, safe seat. How is she going to change Rishi's mind?

 

[Train_manager]

Indeed, but the other FOCs aren't Government-owned.

I didn't say they was.

Just to point out that Transport for Wales has changed Driver's T&Cs to be more productive (including placing Sundays in the working week) - but did so by adopting approach of negotiation.



With a change of Government, there is hope for a new attitude. One in which proper negotiations can take place to move our railway forward.

And a large payrise for the drivers. 71K ish.

Sunday's to be bought into the working week need to be paid for.

Just to point out that Transport for Wales has changed Driver's T&Cs to be more productive (including placing Sundays in the working week) - but did so by adopting approach of negotiation.



With a change of Government, there is hope for a new attitude. One in which proper negotiations can take place to move our railway forward.

And a large payrise for the drivers. 71K ish.

Sunday's to be bought into the working week need to be paid for.

 

[Starmill]

I think Aslef need to “shock the system” now and call a strike for every Saturday all summer. It will never happen, but I think it would really make the government sit up & take note! Leisure travel is booming, so hit those days.

I'm always quite surprised that both large unions don't call more strikes and then cancel them, a great way to cost the employer money and waste vast resources doing unnecessary repeat planning. I'm obviously in no way encouraging it of course, not least for the unnecessary workload it would create for office staff and managers, and of course the vastly increased frustration for the end consumer. But if a decision has been made to be more provocative it'd certainly work.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I'm always quite surprised that both large unions don't call more strikes and then cancel them, a great way to cost the employer money and waste vast resources doing unnecessary repeat planning. I'm obviously in no way encouraging it of course, not least for the unnecessary workload it would create for office staff and managers, and of course the vastly increased frustration for the end consumer. But if a decision has been made to be more provocative it'd certainly work.

I'm surprised that haven't done a miday Tuesday to midday Wednesday type of strike. Does anyone know why not? (Other pairs of days are available).

 

[Krokodil]

Didn't some previous dispute (Southern DOO?) have a lunchtime to lunchtime strike?

 

[Jack Hay]

Hopefully the utterly disastrous election results for the Tories will gee them into action on sorting out disputes like this. Looking at the polls they must now realise the policy of trying to play hardball with the unions has failed miserably. Time to make a fair offer to Aslef and end all this now.

Nonsense. ASLEF staff are mostly paid above the national average so there isn't much public support for a tax increase or a fares increase to pay them more. If they were amongst the least well paid in society it would be different.