Asteroid reservation LM

[VauxhallandI]

I've just picked up my tickets to Nuneaton and back for Saturday. Two advances on LM.

They have come with reservation slips but they state:

Coach *
Seat ***

Any ideas?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Those are "counted place" reservations, where you're tied to specific trains but not specific seats. ATW, Chiltern, Southern and SWT use them for their Advance tickets as well.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Asteroid!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Those are "counted place" reservations, where you're tied to specific trains but not specific seats. ATW, Chiltern, Southern and SWT use them for their Advance tickets as well.

Thanks for the tip, had my suspicions but stupidly thought if that was the case then maybe just not print the second ticket and save on ink, paper and wear and tear on the machine...

 

[island]

Without the second coupon there would be no details of what train you're meant to be on, and the printers are thermal so don't use ink.

I don't think LM offers reservations for large lumps of rock that float around space, mind.

 

[CallySleeper]

Also used on Northern services and boat connections.

 

[Merseysider]

Also used on Northern services and boat connections.

And some TPE trains too, had an asteroid reservation for the 0325 Sheffield - Manchester the other day.

 

[LowLevel]

Should be used with all advances IMHO - it's perverse that passengers who have paid peanuts for a ticket get priority seating over the likes of season ticket holders.

 

[Merseysider]

Should be used with all advances IMHO - it's perverse that passengers who have paid peanuts for a ticket get priority seating over the likes of season ticket holders.

Not the case at all, you can reserve a seat on a train for free as long as you hold a ticket valid for the journey you want to make.

 

[Starmill]

Some TOCs don't permit season ticket holders to make reservations...

 

[ainsworth74]

Should be used with all advances IMHO - it's perverse that passengers who have paid peanuts for a ticket get priority seating over the likes of season ticket holders.

Not all advances are peanuts (they might be cheaper than the walk-up ticket but they ain't peanuts).

 

[IanD]

Asteroid!

Definitely end up with some sort of roids travelling that far on LM.

 

[Kite159]

An asteroid would probably be more comfy than a 350/2 on an Euston/Crewe run

 

[PermitToTravel]

Asteroid!

Did you get iPhowned?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Should be used with all advances IMHO - it's perverse that passengers who have paid peanuts for a ticket get priority seating over the likes of season ticket holders.

Though if you work it out on a daily basis (using 5 days to the week, 22 to the month and 260 to the year, which is the calculation Ticket Offices use when paying out Void Day refunds for those TOCs still declaring same), sometimes season ticket holders are paying less than Advance ticket holders on a per journey basis (and almost always less than a walk-up ticket, with the exception of some contra-peak flows)!

For example: An Annual Season from Swindon to London is £8000, or £30.77 a day. There are only four generally available "tiers" of Advance fares priced lower than this (£11.60, £12.20, £14.40 and £15.00, respectively) and all of the walk-up fares are significantly more expensive.

So, playing devil's advocate, why should a season ticket holder have more "right" to a seat than the vast majority of non-season holders who've paid a higher fare for their journey?

 

[edwin_m]

There are now telescopes watching out to give early warning of the arrival of an asteroid. Presumably that means someone can book an advance ticket for it.

 

[Greenback]

Not all advances are peanuts (they might be cheaper than the walk-up ticket but they ain't peanuts).

And not all season tickets are massively expensive, either.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are now telescopes watching out to give early warning of the arrival of an asteroid. Presumably that means someone can book an advance ticket for it.

There are over 400000 numbered asteroids (positions known), and countless others under observation.
Passengers should be careful to join the correct asteroid.
Please listen for announcements.
Asterisks, meanwhile, pose no such problems!

 

[IanXC]

I don't think LM offers reservations for large lumps of rock that float around space, mind.

So long as your asteroid isn't larger than the maximum dimensions of 150 x 150 x 100 cm, weighing no more than 75 kg, then presumably it can be an Accompanied Animal or Article in the luggage van (where provided!).

Perhaps that means LM can't help due to a lack of luggage vans

 

[LowLevel]

Though if you work it out on a daily basis (using 5 days to the week, 22 to the month and 260 to the year, which is the calculation Ticket Offices use when paying out Void Day refunds for those TOCs still declaring same), sometimes season ticket holders are paying less than Advance ticket holders on a per journey basis (and almost always less than a walk-up ticket, with the exception of some contra-peak flows)!

For example: An Annual Season from Swindon to London is £8000, or £30.77 a day. There are only four generally available "tiers" of Advance fares priced lower than this (£11.60, £12.20, £14.40 and £15.00, respectively) and all of the walk-up fares are significantly more expensive.

So, playing devil's advocate, why should a season ticket holder have more "right" to a seat than the vast majority of non-season holders who've paid a higher fare for their journey?

Because they're of significantly higher value to the railway paying advance capital generally by repeat custom than the odd leisure traveller on their super £2 Doris ticket. I don't think they should necessarily be able to reserve seats themselves but certainly it seems perverse when Anytime ticket holders struggle to sit down (particularly on short formed trains) for mostly cheap advance holders to have this odd priority.

One of the reasons why if I'm short formed on a busy train I cancel the reservations straight away and make it a free for all for everyone.

 

[Greenback]

Advance fares are also bought in advance, meaning capital for the railway before the journey is taken, and I'm sure that the money made by those who have to cancel or amend their journeys is also significant for the TOC's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy for the asteroid reservations simply allowing a space on the train and not a specific seat, but I've never really seen the logic that says that those who buy cheaper tickets in advance are somehow less deserving of a seat than season ticket holders. I don't have any axe to grind against either, as I regularly travel on Advance tickets and I have a season.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought that Richard Branson had seen yet another transport business undertaking opportunity, where reservations were essental....

 

[island]

Some TOCs don't permit season ticket holders to make reservations...

All season ticket holders should be offered the facility to make seat reservations on any reservable train on which their ticket is valid.

In theory some TOCs may charge for such reservations but in practice I do not know this to be terribly common.

Do you have a specific example of a TOC which has a declared policy of not giving seat reservations to season ticket holders when it does give them to holders of other ticket types?

 

[Starmill]

All season ticket holders should be offered the facility to make seat reservations on any reservable train on which their ticket is valid.

In theory some TOCs may charge for such reservations but in practice I do not know this to be terribly common.

Do you have a specific example of a TOC which has a declared policy of not giving seat reservations to season ticket holders when it does give them to holders of other ticket types?

First TransPennine Express' Passenger's Charter states:

Tickets and Reservations

...

Seat reservations for First TransPennine Express services and other
operators’ services, where the facility exists can be booked up to
1800 hours on the day before travel. We are unable to book seat
reservations for season ticket holders. Although you may join any
train for which your ticket is valid, unless you have a seat reservation
we are unable to guarantee that you will be provided with a seat.
Some of our services are very busy and you are recommended to make
a seat reservation whenever your travel plans are known in advance.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One of the reasons why if I'm short formed on a busy train I cancel the reservations straight away and make it a free for all for everyone.

Which is of course entirely up to you, and it probably does help matters somewhat because then there won't be free seats with reservation labels and people standing.

But perversely, the people who did have seat reservations may then cost your employer compensation if they have to stand, or some may decide not to travel and would be entitled to an immediate and full refund (although the chances of the ticket office complying with the NRCoC on that one are very small indeed)!

 

[IanD]

Because they're of significantly higher value to the railway paying advance capital generally by repeat custom than the odd leisure traveller on their super £2 Doris ticket. I don't think they should necessarily be able to reserve seats themselves but certainly it seems perverse when Anytime ticket holders struggle to sit down (particularly on short formed trains) for mostly cheap advance holders to have this odd priority.

One of the reasons why if I'm short formed on a busy train I cancel the reservations straight away and make it a free for all for everyone.

That's very kind of you, particularly for the passengers joining other than at the origin station.

Your first paragraph sums up the attitude of the railways really (and also my nearest Indian restaurant). ALL customers should be treated with the same value and courtesy. Who's to say that an "odd Doris" might not one day decide to be a season ticket holder - or may not if treated with such disdain on their initial forays into rail travel.

 

[Starmill]

That's very kind of you, particularly for the passengers joining other than at the origin station.

Your first paragraph sums up the attitude of the railways really (and also my nearest Indian restaurant). ALL customers should be treated with the same value and courtesy. Who's to say that an "odd Doris" might not one day decide to be a season ticket holder - or may not if treated with such disdain on their initial forays into rail travel.

Unfortunately his TOC kind of gives off this complex of 'we only want passengers who are willing to pay expensive fares', and lots of them treat advance ticket holders harshly. But it's only what they're entitled to do, and by the same token any such 'odd Doris' (reaaaaly not that sure what his means?) who had booked a seat and couldn't get one would be entitled to compensation, or a refund if they decided not to travel. Furthermore I think most guards and platform staff would, in the event of a short form, permit such a passenger to travel on the next train in order to sit down.

 

[Tetchytyke]

it seems perverse when Anytime ticket holders struggle to sit down (particularly on short formed trains) for mostly cheap advance holders to have this odd priority.

It is not uncommon for an Advance ticket to provide more revenue to the TOC than an Anytime ticket. Certainly Virgin have got their knickers in a twist before about ORCATS allocations on certain flows.

Anytime ticket holders can reserve seats just as an Advance ticket holder can. If people aren't organised enough to book a seat for a long journey then that's the risk they take.

One of the reasons why if I'm short formed on a busy train I cancel the reservations straight away and make it a free for all for everyone.

How awfully considerate of you, especially to all those people with reservations who board later in the journey.

 

[Kite159]

It is not uncommon for an Advance ticket to provide more revenue to the TOC than an Anytime ticket. Certainly Virgin have got their knickers in a twist before about ORCATS allocations on certain flows.

Anytime ticket holders can reserve seats just as an Advance ticket holder can. If people aren't organised enough to book a seat for a long journey then that's the risk they take.

.

Especially with Cross Country and their Reserve on the day feature. At least if you have booked the seat you won't be turfed out mid-way though the journey as it became reserved on route

 

[LowLevel]

If you would like to try and control boarding at a barrier less intermediate station with a 2 car fully reserved train which is full and standing when it's twice that length then please go ahead. Canning the reservations stops people standing every few feet or so arguing about seat reservations and preventing the queue from boarding. It also allows more efficient boarding in that you fill all the seats and then fill the standing space. I'm not able to be everywhere at once sorting out reservation arguments so blanket removal also avoids fights. I always make announcements regarding the availability of compensation.

It doesn't unduly disadvantage the intermediate shacks as it's the kind of train that fills and empties multiple times over the course of the journey and therefore at each principal station the loadings reset somewhat. We are usually at 10s of people left behind point anyway.

Of course the golden bullet would be for the train to have the right number of coaches but this fails to happen from time to time.

It still doesn't change the fact that I think it's unfair for advance ticket holders to receive a free reservation when others don't get it and indeed season ticket holders aren't permitted to make them at all. Perhaps make a seat reservation a supplementary charge with an advance.

I should point out that I don't act in exactly the manner I speak in real life. However it is a discussion forum so I let t hair down in my responses. I do generally enforce reservations but I think in the circumstances I encounter they cause more trouble than they help, especially when 100% of seats are reserved due to short formation.

 

[Starmill]

If you would like to try and control boarding at a barrier less intermediate station with a 2 car fully reserved train which is full and standing when it's twice that length then please go ahead. Canning the reservations stops people standing every few feet or so arguing about seat reservations and preventing the queue from boarding. It also allows more efficient boarding in that you fill all the seats and then fill the standing space. I'm not able to be everywhere at once sorting out reservation arguments so blanket removal also avoids fights. I always make announcements regarding the availability of compensation.

I agree this is a problem - people just do not sit in seats with reservation labels in the same way they do if there are none present, and some will stand and get in the way when there are free seats. Usually nothing is done about this, but ATW have come up with a solution to the problem, whereby Advance ticket holders do not get seat reservations, but they can be made upon request with the purchase of a walk-up ticket.

It still doesn't change the fact that I think it's unfair for advance ticket holders to receive a free reservation when others don't get it and indeed season ticket holders aren't permitted to make them at all. Perhaps make a seat reservation a supplementary charge with an advance.

Indeed, or go for the approach of ATW at least, where they are not booked by default! My understanding of it was also that if I buy a Manchester - Sheffield 7 Day Season I can make a seat reservation on an EMT service, but not a TPE one?

 

[LowLevel]

EMT also don't permit season ticket holders to reserve seats.