Automated Announcement "First Class is at the Front/Rear"

[rower40]

The Passenger Information System automated announcement at Willington informs the waiting passengers that "First Class is at the Front/Rear(*) of the train".
(* Delete as appropriate)

For 1D53, the train I catch (**), It's wrong, more often than not.
(**) - Pre-pandemic, this was every day. Now it's 1 or 2 days per week.

Why is it wrong? Whose task is it to provide this information? Who do I take it up with?

1. East Midlands Railway (the railway undertaking that manages the station)
2. Cross Country Trains (the train provider of 1D53)
3. NR - who manage industry-wide IT systems
4. Someone else?

A cursory look at the Birmingham New Street simplifier suggests that 5D52 runs from Tyseley to Birmingham New Street platform 10M, where it terminates, reversing to form 1D53. There used to be one ECS working for both 1D51 and 1D53 (splitting at New Street), and I could imagine that entering the details of both portions might be beyond the capabilities of an automated system. But a one-in-one-out (with reversal) at platform 10M shouldn't cause problems.

Any ideas, anyone?

 

[satisnek]

I caught 1V15 from Willington earlier today and having read your post I listened out for the announcement, but in this case it's a 4-car (2+2) formation and there was no mention of the position of first class. But I think this issue occurs at all stations from Birmingham New Street downwards. It would be interesting to know if the XC 170s have a 'correct' way round. I've seen one or two instances of these services being spontaneously diverted via the Castle Donington route if there's a problem at Derby - and when that happens the set becomes reversed.

In this particular case, though, it's a short train and a short platform, so just wait in the middle of the platform and see which way round the train is when it arrives

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I caught 1V15 from Willington earlier today and having read your post I listened out for the announcement, but in this case it's a 4-car (2+2) formation and there was no mention of the position of first class. But I think this issue occurs at all stations from Birmingham New Street downwards. It would be interesting to know if the XC 170s have a 'correct' way round. I've seen one or two instances of these services being spontaneously diverted via the Castle Donington route if there's a problem at Derby - and when that happens the set becomes reversed.

In this particular case, though, it's a short train and a short platform, so just wait in the middle of the platform and see which way round the train is when it arrives

CrossCountry like to have the Southbound HST's with First Class at the front and at the rear on Northbound trains so Voyagers and 170's should be the same really.

 

[swt_passenger]

CrossCountry like to have the Southbound HST's with First Class at the front and at the rear on Northbound trains so Voyagers and 170's should be the same really.

XC voyager routes have never had a “right way round”, there are just far too many reversals.

 

[Dr Day]

I find real-time trains pretty accurate but presumably it is the same data source used by the station systems. In relation to the OP I would have expected the source data to have come from XC rather than the station operator.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Nothing worse than positioning yourself for the end Coach 'A' of an 11 car Pendolino, and then ascertaining, at the last minute, that the train is running in "reverse formation". Cue hasty dash from one end of the platform to the other. To be fair, doesn't happen all that often!

 

[LickeyIncliner]

I have been a little sceptical about any station info regarding the whereabouts of first class since seeing the on-platform display at Birmingham New Street announcing "Platform 8: Newcastle calling at .... First class at Platform 9A".

I was rather relieved when the whole train arrived intact at platform 8. And in fairness first class was at the A end.

 

[Horizon22]

It should rely on the train provider ensuring the formation is currently pushed into downstream CIS systems. Trains do often end up in reverse for a variety of reasons. So yes, it is Crosscountry's issue to resolve.

 

[47296lastduff]

I was at Leeds earlier this month on an Intercity 225 to KGX, and the live announcement told us first class at the rear, standard at the front. Five minutes later the same person told us the correct info, first class at the front.

 

[louis97]

I have been a little sceptical about any station info regarding the whereabouts of first class since seeing the on-platform display at Birmingham New Street announcing "Platform 8: Newcastle calling at .... First class at Platform 9A".

I was rather relieved when the whole train arrived intact at platform 8. And in fairness first class was at the A end.

New Street is one of the places that actually overwrites the information provided automatically by CrossCountry. I have seen lots of incorrect information advertised there before, whilst the information is great when it is right, during disruption it becomes clear that the station cannot keep up with all the changes. Therefore you end up with your example there!

I find real-time trains pretty accurate but presumably it is the same data source used by the station systems. In relation to the OP I would have expected the source data to have come from XC rather than the station operator.

I've often found the information on RTT more accurate than station screens. XC manually publish coach letter formation at the beginning of each day (can be viewed on Journeycheck) and where this is advertised on screens I have noticed Newcastle seems to throw some who publish this information. A number of services shunt out of Newcastle to clear the platform, it seems that where this is the case it is assumed the train turns around, where actually it doesn't unless it has arrived or departs via High Level Bridge in one direction only. This results in situations where the screens advertise something completely different to RTT, but RTT is correct as the data into it understands that the train has not turned around.
Last week I experienced another example where RTT was more accurate, service was formed of 8 coaches with rear 4 locked out, yet screens said formed of 5 coaches, XC had even published the information on formation yet the screens were still incorrect, formation was advertised on the screens too, also wrong.