Automatic Ticket Barriers at Harpenden - What's the Point ?

[Mutant Lemming]

They have had barriers at Harpenden for a couple of months now but as the station is unmanned in the evenings (and certain other occasions too) they are then left open so the evening 'free' travel many people avail themselves of continues as before while daytime travellers and commuters now face a barrier as well as (admittedly now less) on train checks. Passenger usage at most stations from St.Pancras to Bedford is quite high round the clock can they really not justifly staffing some of the busier stations or have they some figures to prove that the revenue lost wouldn't justify the cost ?

 

[exile]

Employing someone every evening - say, 1 extra FTE. £30k including NI, pension and so on? Say, average fare of £5. so, would need 6,000 extra fares a year to break even - or 20 or so per day. That sounds feasible to me. Am I right in assuming these are DOO trains so there's no on-train ticket checking?

 

[evil_hippo]

I feel about these the same way I do about ticket barriers in general. Given the constant need for staffing and the expense of installing and maintaining them, more on-train inspections are almost certainly a more effective solution, and can't be fooled by buying the cheapest ticket to the next station, or a period return valid through the station. This is not to mention the security benefits of having a member of staff on board most trains.

 

[bb21]

Staffing cost is a fixed expense, with the potential of going up every year.

Revenue income is unpredictable. Accountants don't like uncertainty. They see it as a risk and company bosses don't like risks.

Result? Better to not employ the extra staff and rely on honest passengers to pay their way, as long as there is sufficient income from other sources.

Sad but true.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

They have had barriers at Harpenden for a couple of months now but as the station is unmanned in the evenings (and certain other occasions too) they are then left open so the evening 'free' travel many people avail themselves of continues as before while daytime travellers and commuters now face a barrier as well as (admittedly now less) on train checks. Passenger usage at most stations from St.Pancras to Bedford is quite high round the clock can they really not justifly staffing some of the busier stations or have they some figures to prove that the revenue lost wouldn't justify the cost ?

FCC are not targeting evening travel, they are aiming at the more expensive peak travel on 'packed like sardines' services. They can't be seen to be aiming at that so have the barriers at all times the ticket office is open. The benefit of that is that they also cover journeys not covered by their RPIs during the day.

When I worked for FCC, it was rare for me to see an RPI on my trips to work (mostly off-peak), maybe once every two weeks or so (out of 10-12 journeys per week). Even then it was rare for me to see them north of St Albans (I think maybe once or twice in seven years), but they may have hired in more people since then.

To make sure every off peak train from Harpenden has tickets checked by staff you'd probably need atleast 8 members of staff at any one time (eight trains in each direction each hour but with stops five minutes either side) and they'd only be there for seven hours or so (depending on their shift hours), the barriers will be there all day and cover all trains.

Granted that is looking at Harpenden in isolation and the figures might be more even over the whole line, but I think FCC will be looking at coverage of the whole line for most of the day from all stations in the long run.

 

[eastdyke]

And what is to stop a couple of RPI's being detailed to Harpenden just 1 evening every couple of months?

On different nights of the week of course.

Users would soon get a message.

Or is my brain too logical?

 

[WillPS]

Since most other stations on the line are barriered, it's questionable how much staffing Harpenden in to the night would do.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

On occasion some of the other barriered stations (St Albans, Luton Airport Parkway and Bedford) also have spells when the barriers are open - on sat 6th the barriers were open at 11 am on a sat morning at Bedford. There are still numerous stations that have no barriers... Flitwick, Harlington, Leagrave, Mill Hill, Hendon, Cricklewood, West Hampstead. So often pretty much the whole line apart from Kentish Town and St Pancras have spells with no barriers in operation.

 

[GoByThameslink]

And what is to stop a couple of RPI's being detailed to Harpenden just 1 evening every couple of months?

On different nights of the week of course.

Users would soon get a message.

Or is my brain too logical?

That's what used to happen, they would be there en-masse particularly in the early evening.

The barriers were operating this evening at 6:15pm when I was there dropping passengers off. A possible theory is that the barriers are in use when FCC think there are plenty of outward journeys (eg on the way to the London for the evening) and since the return costs no where near double the single [off peak], there is less justification for operating them in the late evening.

Separately, it seems that the barriers will not allow tickets with a railcard discounts through and these have to be shown to the RPI (who unlike some of the stories elsewhere on this forum was cheerful and helpful).

 

[Firestarter]

On occasion some of the other barriered stations (St Albans, Luton Airport Parkway and Bedford) also have spells when the barriers are open - on sat 6th the barriers were open at 11 am on a sat morning at Bedford. There are still numerous stations that have no barriers... Flitwick, Harlington, Leagrave, Mill Hill, Hendon, Cricklewood, West Hampstead. So often pretty much the whole line apart from Kentish Town and St Pancras have spells with no barriers in operation.

Leagrave has barriers and has done for a couple or three months. West Hampstead's go live en of this year i believe

 

[martinsh]

Barriers at Chester were open at 4.45pm this evening !

 

[PTF62]

FCC are not targeting evening travel

They were at my station last Wednesday around 10pm.

The barrier staff normally leave about 7pm, but that night at 10pm there were three barrier staff and two BTP, presumably to protect them. Not that they appeared to have much work, as everyone seemed to have a ticket.

It seemed a bit of an odd day and time to set out to catch the ticketless.