Avanti - Qualified Drivers - Liverpool & Wolves (28/07/23)

[tiptoptaff]

Agree, Preston is the only WCML depot that would be attractive to a GWR driver. I remember the first time I drove a fast train to London, it was great. That lasted for about a week before I got bored of the monotomy! But as you say, they will get 100s applying, and good luck to them.

Gets to a point you enjoy stoppers, for something to do!

 

[irish_rail]

Agree, Preston is the only WCML depot that would be attractive to a GWR driver. I remember the first time I drove a fast train to London, it was great. That lasted for about a week before I got bored of the monotomy! But as you say, they will get 100s applying, and good luck to them.

Mind you, there is a Plymouth driver who said he'd move to Avanti tomorrow if his Missus was prepared to move ooop north, so I can see a UK wide attraction for this post.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Mind you, there is a Plymouth driver who said he'd move to Avanti tomorrow if his Missus was prepared to move ooop north, so I can see a UK wide attraction for this post.

Oh definitely

 

[irish_rail]

Gets to a point you enjoy stoppers, for something to do!

Pretty much. Fast work ain't all its cracked up to be. Was better on the old 2+8 HSTs , but on modern stock it is the regional and commuter drivers who have the more enjoyable job in my opinion.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Pretty much. Fast work ain't all its cracked up to be. Was better on the old 2+8 HSTs , but on modern stock it is the regional and commuter drivers who have the more enjoyable job in my opinion.

You HSS boys want to come to the dark side and play on the little stuff too!

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I’m curious to know what the “Pendolino experience” is, are Pendolinos great to drive or something?

 

[8J]

I don't think there's many TPE drivers in the Liverpool or Manchester area that are interested in going to Avanti. They're glad to see the back of First Group and still retain far better conditions and rosters than AWC drivers do for only £9k per year less. Then they also have to take a pay cut for the first 2 years before going up to full drivers salary.

Oh and the Pennines is a much nicer route than the Southern ene of the WCML! As has been alluded on here, money isn't everything. Speaking to the AWC drivers who attend my branch meeting, it seems to be a place to avoid like the plague at the moment!

 

[irish_rail]

I don't think there's many TPE drivers in the Liverpool or Manchester area that are interested in going to Avanti. They're glad to see the back of First Group and still retain far better conditions and rosters than AWC drivers do for only £9k per year less. Then they also have to take a pay cut for the first 2 years before going up to full drivers salary.

Oh and the Pennines is a much nicer route than the Southern ene of the WCML! As has been alluded on here, money isn't everything. Speaking to the AWC drivers who attend my branch meeting, it seems to be a place to avoid like the plague at the moment!

Indeed, but I suppose by moving, TPE drivers can avoid the inevitable ECTS that is due for the pennines. I'm yet to meet a driver with a good word to say about it. All down to the individual I suppose.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Indeed, but I suppose by moving, TPE drivers can avoid the inevitable ECTS that is due for the pennines. I'm yet to meet a driver with a good word to say about it. All down to the individual I suppose.

But won't avoid it for the impending implementation on the WCML

 

[8J]

Indeed, but I suppose by moving, TPE drivers can avoid the inevitable ECTS that is due for the pennines. I'm yet to meet a driver with a good word to say about it. All down to the individual I suppose.

ETCS over the Pennines is at least 10 years away if what I'm told is to be believed.

HS2 will be ETCS too which I imagine Avanti (or West Coast Partnership) drivers will be involved with.

 

[irish_rail]

ETCS over the Pennines is at least 10 years away if what I'm told is to be believed.

HS2 will be ETCS too which I imagine Avanti (or West Coast Partnership) drivers will be involved with.

True, and thats something else for people to consider. Hs2. Do you want to be driving in name only (ie the computer driving and starting stopping the train when on HS2 tracks.

 

[Mattydo]

True, and thats something else for people to consider. Hs2. Do you want to be driving in name only (ie the computer driving and starting stopping the train when on HS2 tracks.

ETCS doesn't necessarily imply ATO... You still drive the train in ETCS but with a supervisory safety system comparable to ATP and movement authorities instead of signals. I don't believe there are any high speed stock in the UK equipped to run ATO as it stands? Plus it doesn't work in LRA hence outside of Thameslink tunnels not sure it would be all that useful. But I could be very wrong. ETCS itself is fine once you get used to it for me.

 

[irish_rail]

ETCS doesn't necessarily imply ATO... You still drive the train in ETCS but with a supervisory safety system comparable to ATP and movement authorities instead of signals. I don't believe there are any high speed stock in the UK equipped to run ATO as it stands? Plus it doesn't work in LRA hence outside of Thameslink tunnels not sure it would be all that useful. But I could be very wrong. ETCS itself is fine once you get used to it for me.

No but HS2 will be ATO, so a driver at Liverpool say, would drive as far as Crewe where the ATO takes over on to Euston. TPE on the other hand will have ECTS, but as you say, will still drive the train. Personally I can't think of anything worse than ATO.

 

[Mattydo]

No but HS2 will be ATO, so a driver at Liverpool say, would drive as far as Crewe where the ATO takes over on to Euston. TPE on the other hand will have ECTS, but as you say, will still drive the train. Personally I can't think of anything worse than ATO.

I wasn't aware of that. Interesting. As you say it would put me off Avanti (WCP) if the vast part of my day was spent in a supervisory role. It tends to make the day go quickly when you're switched on and driving.

I was considering Avanti recently but withdrew before taking a rules exam spot as the roster didn't appeal, although I hear the work content sort of compensates for the number of days worked for some drivers. I've met a few who love and a few who are considering moving back to metro or local operators. It's for some and not for others and I'm sure that's true.

Personally I find DOO metro quite tiring but also have some experience of days spent not doing much and can't say I enjoy that either.

An operator like TPE or other that offers a bit of a mix over an interesting route seems more appealing.

 

[irish_rail]

I wasn't aware of that. Interesting. As you say it would put me off Avanti (WCP) if the vast part of my day was spent in a supervisory role. It tends to make the day go quickly when you're switched on and driving.

I was considering Avanti recently but withdrew before taking a rules exam spot as the roster didn't appeal, although I hear the work content sort of compensates for the number of days worked for some drivers. I've met a few who love and a few who are considering moving back to metro or local operators. It's for some and not for others and I'm sure that's true.

Personally I find DOO metro quite tiring but also have some experience of days spent not doing much and can't say I enjoy that either.

An operator like TPE or other that offers a bit of a mix over an interesting route seems more appealing.

I guess age is relevant here. If you have more than 20 years to go, then the ATO thing becomes an issue, but I don't reckon it'll bite most Avanti drivers for at least 10 years or so.
If TPE could sort out decent route cards for drivers again then I agree it would be a desirable TOC.

 

[Mattydo]

I guess age is relevant here. If you have more than 20 years to go, then the ATO thing becomes an issue, but I don't reckon it'll bite most Avanti drivers for at least 10 years or so.
If TPE could sort out decent route cards for drivers again then I agree it would be a desirable TOC.

Yeah that made me depressingly aware of my age .

 

[Smelliott]

Plus it doesn't work in LRA hence outside of Thameslink tunnels not sure it would be all that useful.

Sorry, LRA?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Sorry, LRA?

Low Rail Adhesion

 

[175001]

Money isn't everything - Ts and Cs and overall quality of life are far more important than money. And when the novelty wares off, it's still just driving a train

Well said. I was offered an assessment for a job with them, saw the base roster, and said no thanks.

 

[SA91]

I’m curious to know what the “Pendolino experience” is, are Pendolinos great to drive or something?

Comfortable seat, ergonomically designed, good sighting, doesn't feel cramped, AC / heating works brilliantly, controls are comfortable to use, accelerates well, brakes amazingly, tilt is a novelty which does wear off after a bit but still a nice touch, only come as a 9 and 11 car so no faffing around with stop car marks, feels modern even though it's around 20yrs old, has a "boost" mode for those who've seen Fast and furious and want a bit of that action, TMS is simple and easy to use.

It's a traction set where you are confident in it and not worried about whether the brakes on this set are good or not.

 

[dk1]

Does anyone know what the parking situation is like at Liverpool Lime Street? Do they have staff parking or is it just park in the City where possible

I’ve never heard of any drivers depot that doesn’t give free parking to staff except inner London but then then they have excellent public transport & some offer complimentary taxis for drivers on early starts/late finishes. Would be a poor old show if they didn’t.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I’ve never heard of any drivers depot that doesn’t give free parking to staff except inner London but then then they have excellent public transport & some offer complimentary taxis for drivers on early starts/late finishes. Would be a poor old show if they didn’t.

TfW charges their staff. They have to buy monthly passes, albeit at 25% of the public rate. Cardiff crew used to be paying £35a month, as an example

Unless that's changed in the last couple of years!

 

[dk1]

TfW charges their staff. They have to buy monthly passes, albeit at 25% of the public rate. Cardiff crew used to be paying £35a month, as an example

Unless that's changed in the last couple of years!

Blimey!! Never heard of that before. How sad Not paid once for parking in almost 39yrs on the railway in various posts & know nobody else who has had to.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Blimey!! Never heard of that before. How sad is that?

And one of the lowest paid TOCs (for now, anyway)

 

[dk1]

And one of the lowest paid TOCs (for now, anyway)

Yes and GA are down the bottom for drivers yet we all including catering & cleaning staff get allocations to park at work free of charge.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Yes and GA are down the bottom for drivers yet we all including catering & cleaning staff get allocations to park at work free of charge.

TfW was the only TOC outside of London I'd heard of that charged.

 

[driver9000]

UI, Mersyrail don't take other TOC's qualifieds and other TOCs don't take on theirs. An old BR agreement, apparantly.

Must have been torn up as we have a couple of ex MerseyRail Drivers at my depot who came over qualified.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Must have been torn up as we have a couple of ex MerseyRail Drivers at my depot who came over qualified.

I must have been misinformed!

Unless it's a local thing, you're up in Scotland? Could be a thing just for the Liverpool/Wigan area

 

[driver9000]

I must have been misinformed!

Unless it's a local thing, you're up in Scotland? Could be a thing just for the Liverpool/Wigan area

No I'm not in Scotland and I'm within commuting distance of MerseyRail too. I've worked my entire career in spitting distance of MerseyRail and even working up to the boundary of their network and I've never been aware of a policy or agreement not to take qualified Drivers from MerseyRail. I do know MerseyRail prefer to promote from within to the driving grade.

 

[Firedriver]

No I'm not in Scotland and I'm within commuting distance of MerseyRail too. I've worked my entire career in spitting distance of MerseyRail and even working up to the boundary of their network and I've never been aware of a policy or agreement not to take qualified Drivers from MerseyRail. I do know MerseyRail prefer to promote from within to the driving grade.

I think Merseyrail are on 63K…more than both TPE and Northern at Lime St. wonder why they’d move