Avanti services through Watford slow tunnel and Northampton

[Philip]

Are any Avanti passenger services booked to run via Watford slow line tunnel, or via Northampton loop; ie. early morning, late at night or on Sundays? Just wondering!

 

[SargeNpton]

Pre-Covid there was an early morning SX train (around 0641) from Northampton to Euston that was an Avanti service. Hopefully that will be reinstated at some stage.

Currently there is the 1852 SX Edinburgh-Euston that runs via Northampton.

I'm not aware of any northbound train via Northampton, but that's not to say that there isn't one.

 

[jfollows]

Are any Avanti passenger services booked to run via Watford slow line tunnel, or via Northampton loop; ie. early morning, late at night or on Sundays? Just wondering!

Frequently on Sundays via Northampton, for example next Sunday 1A01 08:18 Liverpool to Euston https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C50079/2021-07-11/detailed

EDIT This one also booked slow line through Watford as it happens.

EDIT Sunday mornings because of booked engineering work which usually finishes early afternoon. Just search on RTT, eg https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

 

[zwk500]

Are any Avanti passenger services booked to run via Watford slow line tunnel, or via Northampton loop; ie. early morning, late at night or on Sundays? Just wondering!

For the WCML 2-track all Avanti trains will be booked via the Slow lines as far as Hanslope Junction. I can't remember exact times but it's something like 2200-0400 weeknights, a little bit longer saturdays and until 1130/1200 Sundays.
During the 2-track although Avantis are not booked via Northampton they have additional engineering allowance between Hanslope and Rugby to allow diversions for engineering work without amending the schedules.

 

[sufian123]

Frequently on Sundays via Northampton, for example next Sunday 1A01 08:18 Liverpool to Euston https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C50079/2021-07-11/detailed

EDIT This one also booked slow line through Watford as it happens.

EDIT Sunday mornings because of booked engineering work which usually finishes early afternoon. Just search on RTT, eg https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

sometimes the ones showing on RTT don’t pass Northampton. It’s usually hit and miss, not worth it.

 

[Philip]

Thanks for the info

 

[Table 52]

Out of interest, if an Avanti is booked via Northampton (but not stopping there) but the engineering possession finishes early, are they still obligated to run that way?

Would a driver have to stop and query the route in this case if they went fast lines and weren’t expecting it, or would they just run (via Weedon?) without worrying about it, given it’s the normal route and they’d sign it.

 

[Lewlew]

Out of interest, if an Avanti is booked via Northampton (but not stopping there) but the engineering possession finishes early, are they still obligated to run that way?

Would a driver have to stop and query the route in this case if they went fast lines and weren’t expecting it, or would they just run (via Weedon?) without worrying about it, given it’s the normal route and they’d sign it.

I believe they take any route that allows them to stop at all stations they are booked to stop at. So if offered the route via Weedon, they'd just accept it.

 

[jfollows]

In response to:

Out of interest, if an Avanti is booked via Northampton (but not stopping there) but the engineering possession finishes early, are they still obligated to run that way?

Would a driver have to stop and query the route in this case if they went fast lines and weren’t expecting it, or would they just run (via Weedon?) without worrying about it, given it’s the normal route and they’d sign it.

Sectional Appendix (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix June 2021.pdf) states (and it's been a long-standing instruction probably from resignalling and electrification in the 1960s, certainly from well before 2013):

MD101 - EUSTON TO ARMITAGE JUNCTION (EXCLUSIVE) Hanslope South Jn To RUGBY
Trains diverted via Northampton. Down and Up trains booked to run via Weedon may be diverted via Northampton without previous warning and Drivers so routed need not observe the requirements of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2.
Trains booked to run via Northampton may similarly be diverted via Weedon. Drivers need not observe the requirements of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2, unless their train is booked to call at Northampton and/or Long Buckby.
Dated: 07/12/13
MD105 - HANSLOPE JUNCTION TO RUGBY (VIA NORTHAMPTON) Hanslope North Junction To RUGBY
Trains diverted via Weedon. Trains booked to run via Northampton may be diverted via Weedon. Drivers need not observe the requirements of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2, unless their train is booked to call at Northampton and/or Long Buckby.
Dated: 07/12/13

PS No, I don't know what "Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2" says, I can guess, but if anyone else who has access wants to post what it actually says ........

EDIT I think the wording of the rule which does not have to be observed in this special case is

1.2 Train signalled towards a wrong route
If a train has been signalled towards a wrong route, you must:

• stop the train as soon as it is possible to do so safely
• tell the signaller.

which I found at https://www.jonroma.net/media/rail/opdocs/world/uk/GERM8000-traindriver Iss 6.pdf

 

[Bald Rick]

As an example, everything after 2230 tonight is booked slow line through Watford. Whether that happens or not on the night can vary, but they did last night.

 

[Boodiggy]

In response to:




Sectional Appendix (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix June 2021.pdf) states (and it's been a long-standing instruction probably from resignalling and electrification in the 1960s, certainly from well before 2013):

View attachment 99473

PS No, I don't know what "Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2" says, I can guess, but if anyone else who has access wants to post what it actually says ........

EDIT I think the wording of the rule which does not have to be observed in this special case is

which I found at https://www.jonroma.net/media/rail/opdocs/world/uk/GERM8000-traindriver Iss 6.pdf

there are a number of diversionary routes on the WCML that Avanti drivers will not query as per the operating instructions.

As an example, everything after 2230 tonight is booked slow line through Watford. Whether that happens or not on the night can vary, but they did last night.

It is the booked possession cycle so hopefully…

oops just realised it’s Friday so Friday night possessions still match the old patrolling possessions as PLPR contingency and alternate between fast and slows each week.
Fast lines go right from Camden / Euston to Rugby, Slows to Hanslope but have Wembley Central - North Wembley open for freight.

 

[jfollows]

sometimes the ones showing on RTT don’t pass Northampton. It’s usually hit and miss, not worth it.

Indeed. Today 1A01 ran to its booked route of Weedon .... which had presumably been altered from the route showing on Friday via Northampton in the interim. So I agree that it's hit and miss.
PS However 1A01 did use the slow lines through Watford today!

 

[sufian123]

Indeed. Today 1A01 ran to its booked route of Weedon .... which had presumably been altered from the route showing on Friday via Northampton in the interim. So I agree that it's hit and miss.
PS However 1A01 did use the slow lines through Watford today!

I have been lucky once under virgin days.

 

[Statto]

There's a late night one booked to stop at Northampton, think it's 18.52 ex Edinburgh via Brum

 

[jfollows]

There's a late night one booked to stop at Northampton, think it's 18.52 ex Edinburgh via Brum

Good call, 9M62 18:52 Edinburgh-Euston, today it goes via Weedon, next Monday (19 July) it calls at Northampton 00:06 Tuesday morning to set down only (so that when it's diverted via Weedon the only rail replacement bus service is one for passengers to Northampton from Rugby).