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Avanti WC down the pan again

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Mcr Warrior

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9M61 - 1840 Glasgow Central to Birmingham,failed at Rutherglen where it sat for 3 hours before returning to Glasgow Central.
That's not good, it being the last Southbound Avanti train from Glasgow Central on a Saturday.

So, what's happening to the passengers? Doubt the 1840 would be all that heavily loaded, but reckon there'll still be a fair few stranded passengers. Would any have made it back to Glasgow Central before the 2213 Scotrail service for Carlisle departed? (Which of course isn't too helpful for anyone who was hoping to travel South of Carlisle).
 
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glenbogle

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Sounds pretty chaotic at Central, plenty angry people on the Avanti X social media page.
 

Trainguy34

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390 156 by the looks of RTT, should've been on its way to Oxley Depot (where it started this morning) after terminating in Birmingham. Wonder where it's going to go or will it just be left in platform overnight?
 

Furrball

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Not a good look from Avanti and highlights that the Social Media team need management backup at times like this

Ticket acceptance for tomorrow should be a no brainer



Hi Samantha, more information will be available once we have it. At present, we don't have any acceptance for tickets from today to be used tomorrow, but if that does change, we'll make that information available. - Miles
 

Mcr Warrior

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That "advice" is about as useful/helpful as the proverbial 'chocolate fireguard'. :s
 

Bletchleyite

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Just been reading through them and "Miles" is asking for the sack. He has a heck of a combative tone, not at all appropriate to this role, speaking to people as if he's an RPI who's just caught a persistent fare dodger. Amazing this is tolerated.
 

glenbogle

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Just been reading through them and "Miles" is asking for the sack. He has a heck of a combative tone, not at all appropriate to this role, speaking to people as if he's an RPI who's just caught a persistent fare dodger. Amazing this is tolerated.
Not a good look from Avanti and highlights that the Social Media team need management backup at times like this

Ticket acceptance for tomorrow should be a no brainer



Hi Samantha, more information will be available once we have it. At present, we don't have any acceptance for tickets from today to be used tomorrow, but if that does change, we'll make that information available. - Miles
Totally agree. Folk just trying to get home and are asking the team for guidance and reassurance. Glasgow will be heaving tonight and good luck looking for a taxi to take you over the border. I also imagine a lot of the city centre hotels will be full.
 

Peter0124

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Not that it matters or has relevance, but would most of the people travelling on that 9M61 service be heading back home to England (and had travelled up to Glasgow for family), or is it the other way around? Or students heading home? Just wondering
 

GordonT

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Not that it matters or has relevance, but would most of the people travelling on that 9M61 service be heading back home to England (and had travelled up to Glasgow for family), or is it the other way around? Or students heading home? Just wondering
I guess a complete mix of folk intent on spending Christmas south of the border either because they live there but study or work in Scotland or because a proportion of Scottish residents spend Christmas with older or younger family members who live in England. Anglo-Scottish services tend to be heaving in both directions on the shoulders of Christmas and this failure will have been very disruptive. Ironically the failure happened barely a mile or so from Polmadie depot so a lay person such as myself might be tempted to wonder if the response to the failure was handled as astutely as it could have been.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Just been reading through them and "Miles" is asking for the sack. He has a heck of a combative tone, not at all appropriate to this role, speaking to people as if he's an RPI who's just caught a persistent fare dodger. Amazing this is tolerated.
Always has done. “Cameron” on LNER is arguably ruder.
 

gazzaa2

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Always has done. “Cameron” on LNER is arguably ruder.

Pete for Avanti is ruder. "You're not being kidknapped" the other day when someone complained about their service. And they have the nerve to make be kind posts.

These people shouldn't be working in customer service
 

GordonT

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Always has done. “Cameron” on LNER is arguably ruder.
Although on occasion the arguably rude ones seem to have a better grasp of the actuality of a given situation than their wafflier but politer and more tolerant of incandescent customers counterparts.
 

The Puddock

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Ironically the failure happened barely a mile or so from Polmadie depot so a lay person such as myself might be tempted to wonder if the response to the failure was handled as astutely as it could have been.
Staff from the depot attended and made a temporary repair to get the train moving again. Initially Avanti had asked for the rescue loco based at Carlisle, is provided by Direct Rail Services under contract, to be mobilised to haul the train south. However the driver for this was booked to finish their shift at 22:00 so declined to go as it would take them into overtime. There was no other DRS driver available, so that plan was up the spout straight away. The train returned to Glasgow Central rather than going forward because the Avanti driver also didn’t have enough time left in their day.

This is, unfortunately, the reality of the privatised railway where resources have been pared back and pared back over the decades until now there is nothing left spare in the cupboard for when a failure occurs on a Saturday evening.
 

RailWonderer

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This is, unfortunately, the reality of the privatised railway where resources have been pared back and pared back over the decades until now there is nothing left spare in the cupboard for when a failure occurs on a Saturday evening.
Nothing to do with privatisation, all about treasury budgets.
 

Bluejays

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There's a reason the customers are incandescent.
There was. But reading that one exchange from miles I could see where he was coming from. He'd made it clear that he couldn't explicitly authorise that taxi costs would be reimbursed, but was providing the email address where they could be considered. That particular passenger seemed to think that asking him again and again and again would change the answer. Of course, it could be argued that it's completely ridiculous for Avanti not to allow their social staff to make authorisations in extreme circumstances. But if he's not authorised to do so, then he can't do so

While his last response was blunt, I think he'd probably calculated that it was the only way he was going to get that message across.
 

Clarence Yard

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Not necessarily the privatised railway at fault here. Had it one Saturday night in BR days when a freight sub sector wouldn’t go out and rescue a failed HST. Same issue, I believe - drivers hours.

Avanti are paying DRS for rescue cover. If DRS are not delivering on their contract, questions need to be asked.
 

RJ

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Not necessarily the privatised railway at fault here. Had it one Saturday night in BR days when a freight sub sector wouldn’t go out and rescue a failed HST. Same issue, I believe - drivers hours.

Avanti are paying DRS for rescue cover. If DRS are not delivering on their contract, questions need to be asked.

It would depend on what is in the contract. Did Avanti specify 24/7 cover with a driver available at all times, or is specified for shifts between fixed times?
 

Grandnat

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Avanti West Coast (and Northern) ruined my pre-Christmas trip to see friends and family.

Here's a short video about the experience:


Description: Today we're heading out on an EPIC trip across the UK, hopping on and off 7 trains. The aim is to travel First Class with LNER, Standard and Standard Premium with Avanti West Coast, and local services from Northern Rail and ScotRail. However, something goes wrong! Want to find out what happens and how LUMO also pays a part. Please tune in to see what happens! Please like, share, and subscribe for more travel adventures around the UK and beyond!
Transcript excerpt:
0:00
We are going to experience 7 different trains in just over 24 hours.
0:05
First class on LNER, standard class and standard premium on Avanti
0:10
West Coast, and a whole host of commuter trains from Northern and Scotrail.
0:15
This is going to be a bit of an epic journey.
 

TheLunaPark

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This is, unfortunately, the reality of the privatised railway where resources have been pared back and pared back over the decades until now there is nothing left spare in the cupboard for when a failure occurs on a Saturday evening.
Although somewhat ironically, DRS as I’m sure you know is a publicly owned company. To hold contracts like this without actually having anyone available up to the end of service is a bit daft.
 

Bletchleyite

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There was. But reading that one exchange from miles I could see where he was coming from. He'd made it clear that he couldn't explicitly authorise that taxi costs would be reimbursed, but was providing the email address where they could be considered. That particular passenger seemed to think that asking him again and again and again would change the answer. Of course, it could be argued that it's completely ridiculous for Avanti not to allow their social staff to make authorisations in extreme circumstances. But if he's not authorised to do so, then he can't do so

While his last response was blunt, I think he'd probably calculated that it was the only way he was going to get that message across.

He had the option to cease to respond entirely having given the information but instead had to have the last word and snark. Unsuitable for the role.

Though his employer is at fault for only "considering" claims. A claim should in such circumstances be a specified entitlement. Who is going to spend several hundred quid if they only might get it back?
 

Bluejays

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He had the option to cease to respond entirely having given the information but instead had to have the last word and snark. Unsuitable for the role.

Though his employer is at fault for only "considering" claims. A claim should in such circumstances be a specified entitlement. Who is going to spend several hundred quid if they only might get it back?
But then I'd argue that ignoring someone in that situation is worse. People being ignored or perceiving that they are being ignored also tends to send them loopy, certainly judging by some of the 'why are you ignoring me' followed by abuse type of messages that are normally a staple of those twitter pages.

On a related note, does anyone have experience of trying to claim back 'reasonable expenses' from Avanti after a situation like this. Would be interested to know how it works. The way passengers are treated by Avanti is quite frankly unforgivable
 
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Long distance express services should have suitable first class provision. You'd just be pushing business users & slightly more well off leisure users to use cars instead. Personally when I use first class (albeit only occasionally), the draw is 1+1 seating, meal, and drinks included. as usually ends up being about the same price as driving anyway.
AIUI Avanti WC first class and standard premium have 2+1 seating, only first class has meals, only Avanti WC and LNER offer meals with first class, other train operators only offer a trolley or no catering (Greater Anglia Norwich to London has a cafe bar). South Western Railway electric first class has 2+2 seating and no catering. From the following I am guessing that Avanti WC introduced Standard Premium because they could not fill all their first class seats, otherwise why would they sell their first class seats for fares much lower than first class? They may be better off at least converting coach H on all their Pendolinos to Standard Class 2+2 seating as they would then have a lot more seats to sell and get more fare income in total. The main point of buying a train ticket is to travel from one place to another so surely the most important consideration is being able to rely on the timetabled trains running and here Avanti WC is clearly failing miserably.
Avanti Standard Premium vs First Class – weekdays vs weekends
This is where things get a bit more complicated. You see, on weekdays, here’s how the formation of the train works:
Nine-car train: Coach H is Standard Premium, J and K are First
11-car unrefurbished train: Coaches G and H are Standard Premium, J and K are First
11-car refurbished train: Coach H is Standard Premium, J and K are First.
On the refurbished trains, Coach G is converted to Standard Class to add in some extra capacity, which is where that carriage ‘disappears’ to.
So, what happens on weekends? Only Coach K is First Class. Coach K is part-kitchen, so it has a very limited number of seats. Just 18, in fact. Coach J becomes Standard Premium, alongside Coach H (and G on unrefurbished trains!)
 

Efini92

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AIUI Avanti WC first class and standard premium have 2+1 seating, only first class has meals, only Avanti WC and LNER offer meals with first class, other train operators only offer a trolley or no catering (Greater Anglia Norwich to London has a cafe bar). South Western Railway electric first class has 2+2 seating and no catering. From the following I am guessing that Avanti WC introduced Standard Premium because they could not fill all their first class seats, otherwise why would they sell their first class seats for fares much lower than first class? They may be better off at least converting coach H on all their Pendolinos to Standard Class 2+2 seating as they would then have a lot more seats to sell and get more fare income in total. The main point of buying a train ticket is to travel from on one place to another so surely the most important consideration is being able to rely on the timetabled trains running and here Avanti WC is clearly failing miserably.
I believe it’s because a first class ticket is shared amongst other operators where as a standard premium ticket all goes to avanti.
 

jagardner1984

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But then I'd argue that ignoring someone in that situation is worse. People being ignored or perceiving that they are being ignored also tends to send them loopy, certainly judging by some of the 'why are you ignoring me' followed by abuse type of messages that are normally a staple of those twitter pages.

On a related note, does anyone have experience of trying to claim back 'reasonable expenses' from Avanti after a situation like this. Would be interested to know how it works. The way passengers are treated by Avanti is quite frankly unforgivable
Just to further this one - an experience I had a few weeks ago. I wasn't travelling by rail but finished with a colleague late at night (around midnight) so went to get a taxi from Gordon Street outside Central. As anyone familiar will know, Glasgow in that area at 1130pm can be ..... boisterous. Ubers flying around left right and centre. In front of me a pair of young overseas students. They seemed a little confused and eventually one of them asked if they were in the right place for a taxi, I reassured them they were.

Making small talk, my friend asked where they were off to, and one of them, speaking very broken English said she was off to Edinburgh, because the train there had been cancelled. (On the way home I checked RTT and there did indeed seem to be a Northbound cancellation to Edinburgh). Therefore Avanti staff had told them to get a taxi. At midnight. In a city an hour's drive from home. That was it. End of Advice. The woman had no concept she would have to pay for said taxi. Whilst the situation seemed odd to me, as the queue continued up the pavement behind us, the chances of battling the crowds to get to speak to someone from Avanti for the woman and her friend to explain their situation to, at Midnight, seemed slim, and she risked being a further 20 minutes back in the queue for no purpose.

I said to the woman that she would likely need to show the taxi driver some cash, since many would not embark on a trip like this (I would guess probably £100-150 fare) into the night without it - and showed her where the nearby cash machine was at Sainsburys. Having done so, They did indeed get in the taxi in front of us and I trust got safely to their home. However I must say the whole thing left me feeling rather .... "what if it was my sister / daughter / partner ?" etc.

Someone from Avanti has given that passenger that advice, for young, vulnerable people to leave a railway station amidst total chaos, without any understanding that they would need to resource their own taxi - doubtless at far higher cost than their original fare, and in the faint hope that it would be reimbursed by Avanti at a later date (doubtless all the standard issue "within 28 days" nonsense. Certainly, thinking back to my own student days, there were several points where I would not have had the money for that fare in my bank.

A few months ago there was the whole "leaving the schoolkids stranded in Preston to find their own bus to Cumbernauld" incident https://news.stv.tv/scotland/train-...hour-journey-with-50-children-left-at-station

One wonders whether it will take some form of serious incident for rail companies to take seriously their responsibilities to all passengers in such scenarios, which sadly, seem to be all the more common. It seems to me the potential risks to passengers in such situations, situations which they simply would not be in were it not for railway/DfT incompetence, is really very significant. At very least, identifying a safe space for people to wait whilst onward transport/hotels are organised, by Avanti, at Avanti's immediate cost (for example on one of the several platformed trains, or ideally, on the one they have arrived on) would seem really the very basic "due care" we should expect.
 

Bantamzen

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Not long left Warrington Bank Quay on a Chester - Leeds service and there's all sorts of delays building on the West Coast Main, with pretty much anything AWC delayed again. Not sure of the reason but I'm sure I heard and member of platform crew mention flooding somewhere.
 

dk1

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Not long left Warrington Bank Quay on a Chester - Leeds service and there's all sorts of delays building on the West Coast Main, with pretty much anything AWC delayed again. Not sure of the reason but I'm sure I heard and member of platform crew mention flooding somewhere.

Line flooded between Carlisle & Lockerbie. ECML in disarray too.
 
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