Avanti WC down the pan again

[Krokodil]

and Haymarket (which is impossible to extend further since you have the tunnels at the east end and Haymarket East Jn at the west end).

Though 11 car sets are used there regularly so that hasn't precluded their operation in the way that (for example) not having enough room at a terminus would make it impossible to stop the train within the signal.

 

[jfollows]

Only a handful of stations that Avanti call at haven't been extended - AFAIK just the Styal line platforms at Wilmslow (used by Avanti once in a blue moon) and Haymarket (which is impossible to extend further since you have the tunnels at the east end and Haymarket East Jn at the west end).

I'll check the Styal line platforms tomorrow, but the up platform is used daily by 9R20 (06:03 Manchester-Euston albeit round the houses via Birmingham) which was 390 136 (11-car) today (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C88499/2024-01-11/detailed#allox_id=0) but I think there are issues preventing self-despatch from the down platform anyway. Probably not extended as you say but still not preventing their use. In the previous timetable the down 19:40 Euston-Manchester used to go via Styal and could also have been 11-car.

 

[FManc]

Funding, as is always the way in railways. IIRC there was a rather expensive scheme to lengthen platforms at certain stations to accommodate all 11 coaches.

Only a handful of stations that Avanti call at haven't been extended - AFAIK just the Styal line platforms at Wilmslow (used by Avanti once in a blue moon) and Haymarket (which is impossible to extend further since you have the tunnels at the east end and Haymarket East Jn at the west end).

Wilmslow, Rugby, Coventry and Haymarket is the full list. Wilmslow does have a daily 06:03 Avanti service that is booked to call at the only SDO platform at Wilmslow (plt2). As a whole the SDO system is very reliable so doesn’t tend to cause any issues.

I'll check the Styal line platforms tomorrow, but the up platform is used daily by 9R20 (06:03 Manchester-Euston albeit round the houses via Birmingham) which was 390 136 (11-car) today (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C88499/2024-01-11/detailed#allox_id=0) but I think there are issues preventing self-despatch from the down platform anyway. Probably not extended as you say but still not preventing their use. In the previous timetable the down 19:40 Euston-Manchester used to go via Styal and could also have been 11-car.

The down Styal platform at Wilmslow isn’t SDO so there’s no issues with 11 cars there.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Wilmslow, Rugby, Coventry and Haymarket is the full list.

Presumably only platform 6 at Rugby, given LNWR sign 12 cars for 1,2,4 and 5.

 

[FManc]

Presumably only platform 6 at Rugby, given LNWR sign 12 cars for 1,2,4 and 5.

Yep that’s correct!
Coventry is just platform 4.

 

[Peter0124]

Looks to be a signal fault between Motherwell and Carstairs, 1S78 (15:30 Euston to Glasgow) diverting via Midcalder and reversing.

 

[jfollows]

I'll check the Styal line platforms tomorrow, but the up platform is used daily by 9R20 (06:03 Manchester-Euston albeit round the houses via Birmingham) which was 390 136 (11-car) today (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C88499/2024-01-11/detailed#allox_id=0) but I think there are issues preventing self-despatch from the down platform anyway. Probably not extended as you say but still not preventing their use. In the previous timetable the down 19:40 Euston-Manchester used to go via Styal and could also have been 11-car.

There are 9/11 SDO signs on the Styal line up platform as expected.

 

[DJ_K666]

Sounds like typical First Group shenanigans to me. Since they don't seem to know how to do anything properly except for obsessively disciplining their staff for nothing and they can't even get that right either. That and the obsession with bringing in university graduates who know nothing about anything and don't seem to share a braincell between them. Much like the DaFT in that respect then.

Obviously this is my impression from observing First's bus operations, and from what the OP has said here it seems their railway operations follow a horribly similar pattern.

 

[py_megapixel]

Wilmslow, Rugby, Coventry and Haymarket is the full list. Wilmslow does have a daily 06:03 Avanti service that is booked to call at the only SDO platform at Wilmslow (plt2). As a whole the SDO system is very reliable so doesn’t tend to cause any issues.

There's an SDO 6 sign at Stockport platform 0. Don't believe any Pendolinos are booked in there but presumably the sign is there because it could in theory be used. Nothing else longer than 6 cars serves Stockport at all currently (except perhaps the odd double Voyager).

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's an SDO 6 sign at Stockport platform 0. Don't believe any Pendolinos are booked in there but presumably the sign is there because it could in theory be used. Nothing else longer than 6 cars serves Stockport at all currently (except perhaps the odd double Voyager).

I was of the impression that Pendolinos could only SDO down from 11 to 9, which was why they couldn't start serving Liverpool South Parkway until the 807s arrive despite the present Liverpool service running in the slow path that includes a call there. Could it be for a theoretical double 4-car 331 or something?

 

[FManc]

There's an SDO 6 sign at Stockport platform 0. Don't believe any Pendolinos are booked in there but presumably the sign is there because it could in theory be used. Nothing else longer than 6 cars serves Stockport at all currently (except perhaps the odd double Voyager).

I was of the impression that Pendolinos could only SDO down from 11 to 9, which was why they couldn't start serving Liverpool South Parkway until the 807s arrive despite the present Liverpool service running in the slow path that includes a call there. Could it be for a theoretical double 4-car 331 or something?

Yeah the SDO at Stockport platform 0 is definitely not class 390 related as 9 cars don’t have operational SDO (but could be retrofitted in theory). You’d only find a Pendo going through there if it was ECS.

SDO can lock out a maximum of 3 coaches so in practice 11 down to 8 (Wilmslow plt2 and Rugby plt6). The reason why a 9 car Pendo can still platform without SDO when an 11 car is down to 8 is because all passenger doors are still platformed on a 9 car. It’ll only be the rear crew door that won’t be accommodated.

 

[jayah]

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

The real issue is that, like the Voyagers, their layout is still incredibly wasteful of space.

According to the Wikipedia article, the 9 car version has 99 First + 370 Standard since refurbishment; a serious improvement on 145+296 as built.

The Class 745/0s between Norwich and London are 80+624, with 2+2 seating, and have better legroom.

 

[footprints]

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

No carriages have been converted from first to standard on the nine cars.

 

[Watershed]

No carriages have been converted from first to standard on the nine cars.

That's not correct - unbelievably, they used to have 5 coaches of standard and 4 of first! Coach G was converted to Standard a few years back.

It's now a more reasonable 6 and 3 respectively, though there is evidently still too much first class capacity which is why Avanti is effectively price dumping it by means of Standard Premium.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

That's not correct - unbelievably, they used to have 5 coaches of standard and 4 of first! Coach G was converted to Standard a few years back.

It's now a more reasonable 6 and 3 respectively, though there is evidently still too much first class capacity which is why Avanti is effectively price dumping it by means of Standard Premium.

There is no Coach G on 9 cars, only A-F, H, J and K, G and U are unique to the 11 cars.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

10-car Pendolinos didn't work, because of the equipment needed under each coach or pair of coaches.
The 9-11 car upgrade was the grudging DfT approval of 106 new Pendolino vehicles (31x2 plus 4x11), in, I think 2010.
This was a last gasp order with Alstom, as production of more vehicles of that type would not be possible.
DfT placed the order, and then got Virgin to manage the roll-out.
All part of the "anyone but Virgin" attitude of the day.

 

[AJDesiro]

There is no Coach G on 9 cars, only A-F, H, J and K, G and U are unique to the 11 cars.

There used to be a coach G on the 9 cars, but it’s now coach F.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There used to be a coach G on the 9 cars, but it’s now coach F.

ah that explains it then

 

[Peter0124]

Would it have been a better idea in 2010 to just make more coaches instead of the 4 new trainsets?

You'd have 52 (rather than 56) Pendolinos but all would be 11 coaches, creating a more uniform fleet.

 

[frodshamfella]

15.43 Lime St to Euston, cancelled., lots of people looking for information.

 

[ExpressTrain]

15.43 Lime St to Euston, cancelled., lots of people looking for information.

Looks like the 14:44, 15:43 and 16:43 are all cancelled, due to lack of crew. Dread to think what the 17:43 will be like

 

[Elecman]

Would it have been a better idea in 2010 to just make more coaches instead of the 4 new trainsets?

You'd have 52 (rather than 56) Pendolinos but all would be 11 coaches, creating a more uniform fleet.

But one of the ‘extra’ sets was to replace the one written off after Grayrigg

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

It is for those in first class, and those customers have paid a considerable amount more, to now be wedged in with the messroom culture and a neighbour next to you!

 

[gazzaa2]

Cancellations galore again.

 

[TrainGeekUK]

Cancellations galore again.

When is avanti never “down the pan”?

Looks like the 14:44, 15:43 and 16:43 are all cancelled, due to lack of crew. Dread to think what the 17:43 will be like

And the 19.37 cancelled too.

 

[footprints]

That's not correct - unbelievably, they used to have 5 coaches of standard and 4 of first! Coach G was converted to Standard a few years back.

There is no coach G on the nine car trains.

 

[AJDesiro]

There is no coach G on the nine car trains.

As above, the 9 cars used to have a coach G, but it was relettered to coach F at some point (I believe when it was converted to standard class circa 2015, helping to simplify reservations in the event that an 11 car is swapped for a 9 car).

 

[Train Maniac]

For what its worth, the 17:43 departure from Lime Street honestly isnt that bad

People seem to forget on here that LNWR also operate on the WCML....

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

So I've used Avanti today Rugby to Carlisle and back again. Didn't think I'd have to use this thread as the train turned up and is still moving. However, I'm sat in Coach C by the shop and the train manager and the shop manager have had a convoluted conversation with and about the driver and a request from control to terminate the train at Watford Junction and go empty stock to Wembley.

Most of this discussion was about how they would get home, no concern for passengers whatsoever.

They had confirmation this was definitely 100% happening by Warrington but only made an announcement 10 minutes after leaving Stafford. They only 'prioritised' this announcement because several passengers had asked them what was going on as they'd had an email saying that the train was terminating at Watford.

Now they are gossiping about a short chubby guy from Preston and something happening with his wife!

(All other Avanti staff I've come across today have been lovely and totally professional).

 

[irish_rail]

Looks like the 14:44, 15:43 and 16:43 are all cancelled, due to lack of crew. Dread to think what the 17:43 will be like

Again, why are Avanti not recruiting none stop at places like Lime St? Yet vacancies appear only very rarely.