YourMum666
Member
Is it a good idea for avanti to run a machester airport service? how many tph would avanti need to run and how much would it affect the current timetable?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Avanti WC to Manchester airport?
- Thread starter YourMum666
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
No, unless Avanti were to take over the TPE WCML service.
0 and not at all
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 15,985
Why?
There is no market from London at all.
I would think that at a stretch a Birmingham - Wolves etc... Wilmslow - Man Airport service might be worth a try, if there were millions of paths - and provide the main Crewe-MAN service, but only barely.
I would think that at a stretch a Birmingham - Wolves etc... Wilmslow - Man Airport service might be worth a try, if there were millions of paths - and provide the main Crewe-MAN service, but only barely.
What even is your idea about why an Avanti service to Manchester Airport could be viable?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Is it possible that the idea comes from HS2's Manchester Airport station (if 2B ever happens)?
If so, it's worth understanding that the location of that station by Manchester Airport is very little to do with the airport itself, and more to do with the business parks in the area (who might use the train instead of flying) and also to replace Stockport's "railhead" role for people driving from prosperous south Manchester. The latter is by far the larger flow, but while Stockport remains open wouldn't really be there so it wouldn't really be viable. Also it'd really need to be a through station and not a terminus.
LNR have considered it (and First North Western briefly did it), but that's more as a budget "as close to Manchester as can reasonably be pathed" location.
Last edited:
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 11,871
What maximum length Avanti train could (presently) actually be accommodated at Manchester Airport?
Currently, a 5-car Voyager.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
What if the train stopped at say, Nuneaton, Tamworth etc, giving Trent Valley towns a direct connection to the airport?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not sure why they'd want connecting to a third-rate regional airport? If they want a regional airport they've got Birmingham, but more likely they'll go south to Heathrow.
Is that a significant passenger flow. It can currently be done with one change at Crewe.
It's not that bad. In healthier moments you have scheduled flights with proper airlines to Singapore, HK, Middle East hubs, NYC and several US hubs...Indopak.. and into the main connecting spots in Europe - certainly more than the bucket & spade regional airports elsewhere.
Generally does the job for many journeys if you wanted to avoid Heathrow, or don't fly BA/OW. I expect Virgin/DL/Skyteam to get stronger there too; return to Detroit, no doubt more Atlanta and Amsterdam funneling. But the direct market is there.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It is probably the better-served of the regional airports, but it's an utter hellhole to actually use, the queues are something else. At no other airport have I ever queued for over two hours at security, apart from Luton *once* when an issue with the motorway and railway cleared at the same time so a huge number of people showed up at once.
However, I just can't see any reason why someone from the Midlands would go to Manchester rather than Heathrow (assuming that destination wasn't offered from Birmingham). So there's just no significant market for this, and any market there is can change at Crewe or Manchester Pic.
My last 2 trips from MIA (T2 & T3) this year have seen me through security in 20 minutes. My family and friends likewise. The queues of last year aren’t an issue anymore. Last year was bad but that was at the height of last years staff shortages.
Agreed
I flew from there to NYC recently (Virgin, and very nice in Upper too) - security was fine.
I don't love it as an airport, but many are adverse to LHR, BHX is useless and the places in between (Wolves, Stafford, Stoke) are not much further than the likes of Blackpool and York in rail time terms. i'd only think it worth of an hourly regional service if it could be pathed, taking on the only south/Crewe facing service from MIA.
Likely, via Stoke would be easier to path at Crewe, and would add that market in. Which is definitely more Manchester-facing and fairly large.
I don't love it as an airport, but many are adverse to LHR, BHX is useless and the places in between (Wolves, Stafford, Stoke) are not much further than the likes of Blackpool and York in rail time terms. i'd only think it worth of an hourly regional service if it could be pathed, taking on the only south/Crewe facing service from MIA.
Likely, via Stoke would be easier to path at Crewe, and would add that market in. Which is definitely more Manchester-facing and fairly large.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Anyone who's averse to LHR really needs to try it again. It was horrible in the old days, but T5 and the Queen's Terminal have transformed it to, in my view, one of the best airports in the world.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Terminal 5 is a wonderful, wonderful place to fly from. Gatwick, Stansted and Luton seem far inferior to me personally.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Same.
And I can't see in a million years why I'd prefer to go to Manchester from the Midlands than there!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
In terms of usage and of routes served, where does Manchester Airport with its two runways rank in current British airports? What other airports are in the same commercial grouping as Manchester Airport.
I understand that daily search parties are still combing the area for signs of the mythical Ringway airport...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_in_the_United_Kingdom says Manchester is third busiest ranked by total passenger traffic in 2022.In terms of usage and of routes served, where does Manchester Airport with its two runways rank in current British airports? What other airports are in the same commercial grouping as Manchester Airport.
I understand that daily search parties are still combing the area for signs of the mythical Ringway airport...
Price usually. Heathrow flights tend to be more expensive than Gatwick or Manchester.Same.
And I can't see in a million years why I'd prefer to go to Manchester from the Midlands than there!
And the posh people in First Class could be nearest the buffers at both Manchester and London with a reversal.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I hear that plans are afoot to lengthen some platforms at Manchester Airport railway station and wonder what length of train could be handled if these proposals reach fruition.
Philip
On Moderation
And the posh people in First Class could be nearest the buffers at both Manchester and London with a reversal.
The priority to have 1st class nearest the buffers at Euston is a hark back to class-dominated Britain in pre-WW1 days and something Avanti shoud move away from; the set formation should be based on whatever is most practical when leaving the depot.
Apart from when the trains run out of course to Edinburgh to or from Polmadie, they don't usually get reversed.
Standard class passengers like their seats to be in the expected place as well as first class passengers.
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 15,985
You would fit an 11 car Pendolino in, though it isn't being developed to do that. Platforms 1,2 and 3 will likely be around 290m long.
In most cases it would still be first class at the buffer stops at Euston with trains out of Wembley, Oxley, Longsight etc as the trains don't do any moves to turn.
- Status