Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Bletchleyite]

4 trains per day is bad enough but what happens when a couple of them get cancelled for train faults or the myriad of other issues that can cause cancellations?

If they've got as many spare units as they would have, it should be reasonably easy to swap one in, give or take the idiotic policy at Edge Hill noted above.

In fairness Avanti may as well not bother running a service at the weekend

Or they could consider not running a service on weekday daytimes (or cutting it right back), as that's typically the quietest time.

The key is that they publish an achievable timetable.

 

[gazzaa2]

If they've got as many spare units as they would have, it should be reasonably easy to swap one in, give or take the idiotic policy at Edge Hill noted above.



Or they could consider not running a service on weekday daytimes (or cutting it right back), as that's typically the quietest time.

The key is that they publish an achievable timetable.

How much can you cut back though? Manchester has 3 trains an hour and Liverpool and Glasgow the one. Manchester services gets back-to-back cancellations and they've still got a train an hour, Liverpool or Glasgow gets back-to-back cancellations and there's no service for 3 hours and both very busy routes that pre-pandemic were promised more services, not less,and the demand for leisure is already at those levels.

If you start reducing much more from an hourly service and it becomes pretty much unusable - as is happening now. Is this basically just how it's going to be now until HS2 is up and running to offer an alternative on that route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How much can you cut back though?

As much as you need to. One train per day if necessary.

Under no circumstances are random cancellations better than a viable timetable.

Advanced notification of no trains at all is better than them all cancelled on the day, even. What happened on Sunday was disastrous, it would have ruined peoples' days/weekends in a way knowing in advance (so they could go by car, or fly, or coach, or whatever) wouldn't.

 

[gazzaa2]

As much as you need to. One train per day if necessary.

Under no circumstances are random cancellations better than a viable timetable.

Advanced notification of no trains at all is better than them all cancelled on the day, even. What happened on Sunday was disastrous, it would have ruined peoples' days/weekends in a way knowing in advance (so they could go by car, or fly, or coach, or whatever) wouldn't.

A lot of the people buying tickets on Avanti have bought advance tickets for services regularly cancelled at short notice, I agree that's no way to run a railway.

I remember when Avanti took over and they were talking about wanting their train travel to be more like airline, where everyone has a designated seat for a particular train. I said then that relies on the trains actually running though. Instead you've got 2 or 3 train loads of people piling onto one train all weekend.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of the people buying tickets on Avanti have bought advance tickets for services regularly cancelled at short notice, I agree that's no way to run a railway.

One could argue that wilfully advertising a timetable they know will not be delivered is fraud. The tickets are being sold on the basis of a certain level of service which will not be delivered, which is wilfully misleading.

 

[jupiter]

Any advice then for someone travelling from Poole to Windermere via Euston to Oxenholme next Sunday the 10th?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any advice then for someone travelling from Poole to Windermere via Euston to Oxenholme next Sunday the 10th?

If you own a car (or hiring one is an option), drive. It is more likely than not that your journey will be seriously disrupted.

If you don't own a car, ask yourself whether the journey is essential and consider cancelling the trip and invoking the "book with confidence" refund. Or consider taking a coach from London to Manchester and connecting to Northern there (though beware Northern are not 100% at the moment either).

If you are on a walk-up ticket, leave as early as possible.

At the moment I would not plan any Avanti weekend journey at all.

 

[Glenn1969]

As someone who will be travelling from Manchester to Milton Keynes on Fri 29th and from Milton Keynes to Birmingham daily during the Commonwealth Games should I stick to LNR, be worried or try and convince my sister to drive ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As someone who will be travelling from Manchester to Milton Keynes on Fri 29th and from Milton Keynes to Birmingham daily during the Commonwealth Games should I stick to LNR, be worried or try and convince my sister to drive ?

All of those. (I think there's a fair risk of strikes then, too). Or book a coach now for the Manchester trip, while there's still seats (assuming there are). NatEx do Manchester-MK Coachway.

Having said that weekdays are not as disrupted as weekends, so for the Friday you may, assuming no strikes, be OK.

 

[peter166]

Any advice then for someone travelling from Poole to Windermere via Euston to Oxenholme next Sunday the 10th?

Fly from Southampton to Manchester & then train to Windermere.

Or maybe XC train via Reading to Manchester and then train to Windermere

If you have a car I'd drive !

Currently I wouldn't travel anywhere long distance by train on a Sunday.
If you manage to avoid any scheduled engineering work you are almost certain to get caught by unscheduled/random cancellations from Avanti, Northern and TPE.

If you do get lucky and your scheduled trains run as timetabled they are likely to be full and standing with passengers from other cancelled services. Not a pleasant journey.

Good luck. You will certainly need it !

 

[ssray]

Another reason https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...nagers--avanti-west-coast050722/?preview=true

 

[jfollows]

Another reason https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...nagers--avanti-west-coast050722/?preview=true

To All Avanti West Coast Train Manager Grade RMT Members

Our Ref: BR2/8/2

5th July 2022


Dear Colleague

IMPOSITION OF ROSTERS, TRAIN MANAGERS – AVANTI WEST COAST

I have received alarming reports from the Lead Officer advising that Avanti West Coast has imposed Train Manager rosters across all depots without any agreement with the RMT. The newly imposed roster will be implemented on Sunday 17th July 2022. The Union believes that the rosters are in breach of the procedures and will have a serious detrimental effect on work life balance for our Train Manager members.

Your Train Manager Company Council Reps have attended numerous lengthy meetings with Avanti West Coast management in the hope of resolving the roster issues but regrettably this shambolic situation, which is of managements making, remains unchanged.

As you may be aware, AWC imposed new rosters at Euston, Woverhampton and Preston in their attempt to reduce cancellations due to Train Manager shortages and the RMT declared an immediate dispute situation. Following the Union registering a dispute at these three locations, management has indicated that they do not believe the rosters they had imposed sufficiently safeguarded the train service plan and that they are now reneging on the agreed rosters at all other locations.

This is not in the spirit of how rosters should be negotiated and agreed and in view of this appalling situation, I have raised my grave concerns with the company and reminded management that industrial relations are already at an all time low and the imposition of rosters will do absolutely nothing to improve the situation.

I trust this keeps you fully advised on the matter and I will, of course, update you on any further developments.

Yours sincerely

Michael Lynch
General Secretary

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'm on the 18:35 Manchester to Euston on the 27th. Hope it isn't cancelled!

 

[peter166]

Here we go again......only this time the weekend has starrted early on a Friday afternoon.
There are 16 cancellations between 1400 & 2200 today, which includes services from Liverpool to Euston at 1447, 1647 and 1747 and from Euston to Liverpool at 1407,1507 and the last train at 2107.
Also the 1847 from Liverpool will be terminated at Crewe. So no through service from Liverpool to London for 4 hours !!

 

[gazzaa2]

Here we go again......only this time the weekend has starrted early on a Friday afternoon.
There are 16 cancellations between 1400 & 2200 today, which includes services from Liverpool to Euston at 1447, 1647 and 1747 and from Euston to Liverpool at 1407,1507 and the last train at 2107.
Also the 1847 from Liverpool will be terminated at Crewe. So no through service from Liverpool to London for 4 hours !!

It's unusable. I've given up with them.

 

[Ianigsy]

I was booked on the 1010 Euston-Holyhead as far as Chester on Wednesday morning.

The 1010 was cancelled between Euston and Chester due to cable theft and restarted from Chester with the Voyager which should have worked down to Euston first thing. Passengers were directed to the 1007 Liverpool as far as Crewe, as were passengers for the 0930 and 1030 Glasgow, which were turned back at Preston on the southbound journey due to power/signalling issues. Fortunately there was enough room in First Class for everybody who needed it, even after Avanti reduced ‘proper’ first to a single coach, although not enough smoked salmon and scrambled eggs to go around!

Currently waiting to see what my refund entitlement turns out to be, as I booked a First Advance though the LNER website at the same time as my outbound ticket from Leeds to King’s Cross, I arrived 42 minutes late and the last leg of my journey was on 2x153 from Crewe to Chester along with everybody else intending to get the Holyhead boat train.

 

[Falcon1200]

Today's cancellations, on a summer Friday, from Glasgow Central;

1M12 1133 to Euston started from Preston
1M14 1335 to Euston started from Preston

Compounded today by TPE cancellations also;
1M96 1107 to Manchester Airport started from Preston
1M87 1205 to Liverpool Lime St cancelled throughout
1M98 1309 to Manchester Airport started from Preston

I shudder to think what conditions were like on those trains south from Glasgow Central which did run. The situation is truly desperate.

 

[185143]

I'm on the 17:30 from Glasgow. The TPE at 17:08 was cancelled, so helpfully this is a 9 car.

Probably about 20 standing, Standard Premium declassified.

 

[DanNCL]

Avanti and TPE have both got to the point where I won't even consider any of their services when planning travel now, whilst SWR is suffering from chronic mismanagement although admittedly that one isn't helped by the 701 fiasco. There is a common denominator here - First Group. They couldn't run anything larger than a single route open access operator properly if they tried.

If it wasn't for the lack of a functioning government (never mind a competent one), the DFT would have stripped First of all three operators long ago.

As for Edge Hill, if anyone bothered to show some leadership that shambles would be sorted out pretty quickly. Alstom need to be given an ultimatum: open the depot 24 hours or everything that stables there will stable elsewhere instead.

 

[dk1]

I think it’s been said about the issues with several Euston drivers leaving around the same time. Can’t imagine many others will be interested in working anything extra what with this weekends glorious weather forecast.

 

[185143]

I'm on the 17:30 from Glasgow. The TPE at 17:08 was cancelled, so helpfully this is a 9 car.

Probably about 20 standing, Standard Premium declassified.

And to top it all off, the shop is closed due to a shortage of staff.

Though on the plus side, I'm currently using the counter as a table to hold my beer and update my Rail Miles.

 

[Watershed]

Avanti and TPE have both got to the point where I won't even consider any of their services when planning travel now, whilst SWR is suffering from chronic mismanagement although admittedly that one isn't helped by the 701 fiasco. There is a common denominator here - First Group. They couldn't run anything larger than a single route open access operator properly if they tried.

If it wasn't for the lack of a functioning government (never mind a competent one), the DFT would have stripped First of all three operators long ago.

I really don't get where you are getting this stuff from. It's absolutely dire, yes, but any operator would be in the same situation regardless of who was in charge. The constraints imposed by the DfT, which are the root cause, would be exactly the same.

Note how, for example, Lumo and Hull Trains are seeing nowhere near the same level of cancellations. It's a question of having the correct resources in place, and unfortunately Avanti and TPE simply don't.

As for Edge Hill, if anyone bothered to show some leadership that shambles would be sorted out pretty quickly. Alstom need to be given an ultimatum: open the depot 24 hours or everything that stables there will stable elsewhere instead.

They are doing exactly what they are required to do under their contracts. I'm sure they'd be willing to staff it 24 hours - in exchange for a "suitable" fee, which the DfT is extremely unlikely to agree to.

There isn't enough spare stabling capacity elsewhere to boycott it, let alone the disruption it would cause with drivers having to learn new depots overnight and needing to be taxied further afield. It's a complete non-starter; even suggesting it makes it clear that you have no idea how these sorts of negotiations work.

 

[mmh]

And to top it all off, the shop is closed due to a shortage of staff.

Though on the plus side, I'm currently using the counter as a table to hold my beer and update my Rail Miles.

If you can physically get to the shop then you're having a (relatively) good journey!

 

[dk1]

I really don't get where you are getting this stuff from. It's absolutely dire, yes, but any operator would be in the same situation regardless of who was in charge. The constraints imposed by the DfT, which are the root cause, would be exactly the same.

Note how, for example, Lumo and Hull Trains are seeing nowhere near the same level of cancellations. It's a question of having the correct resources in place, and unfortunately Avanti and TPE simply don't.

To be fair both are a tiny operation in comparison & HT have had several cancellations due to driver shortage. If you put that as a percentage of overall services then it would be quite high. They also have upcoming strike action on the cards I believe.

 

[gazzaa2]

Today's cancellations, on a summer Friday, from Glasgow Central;

1M12 1133 to Euston started from Preston
1M14 1335 to Euston started from Preston

Compounded today by TPE cancellations also;
1M96 1107 to Manchester Airport started from Preston
1M87 1205 to Liverpool Lime St cancelled throughout
1M98 1309 to Manchester Airport started from Preston

I shudder to think what conditions were like on those trains south from Glasgow Central which did run. The situation is truly desperate.

The train strikes won't have as much impact next time. People won't notice the difference.

 

[DanNCL]

I really don't get where you are getting this stuff from. It's absolutely dire, yes, but any operator would be in the same situation regardless of who was in charge. The constraints imposed by the DfT, which are the root cause, would be exactly the same.

Note how, for example, Lumo and Hull Trains are seeing nowhere near the same level of cancellations. It's a question of having the correct resources in place, and unfortunately Avanti and TPE simply don't.

It's pretty clear that management has a lot to do with it too. If it was solely down to the DFT this would be an issue on all non-open access TOCs, and it simply isn't. Southeastern have only cancelled two trains from London Bridge today because of staff shortages. C2C have only cancelled two trains from Fenchurch Street because of staff shortages today. Chiltern haven't cancelled anything from Marylebone today because of staff shortages. LNER operated 100% of their full pre covid timetable yesterday without any cancellations for any reason (using yesterday as the example as there's been major disruption because of a fatality today). It's all a far cry from what First are managing with Avanti and TPE.

They are doing exactly what they are required to do under their contracts. I'm sure they'd be willing to staff it 24 hours - in exchange for a "suitable" fee, which the DfT is extremely unlikely to agree to.

There isn't enough spare stabling capacity elsewhere to boycott it, let alone the disruption it would cause with drivers having to learn new depots overnight and needing to be taxied further afield. It's a complete non-starter; even suggesting it makes it clear that you have no idea how these sorts of negotiations work.

Threatening to take your business elsewhere, regardless whether you're actually able to take your business elsewhere or not, is a negotiatiating tactic used in many industries including on the railway.

 

[peter166]

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

Checkout the cancellations already listed for tomorrow. 37 so far & counting........

 

[Pinus contorta]

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

Checkout the cancellations already listed for tomorrow. 37 so far & counting........

It's forecast to be scorchio so there will be lots of people arriving for trains already hot n bothered and then there is the overcrowding issue. Not looking good.

 

[gazzaa2]

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

Checkout the cancellations already listed for tomorrow. 37 so far & counting........

One train to Lime Street from Euston after 16:07.

 

[Agent_Squash]

LNER operated 100% of their full pre covid timetable yesterday without any cancellations for any reason (using yesterday as the example as there's been major disruption because of a fatality today). It's all a far cry from what First are managing with Avanti and TPE.

What’s more, all the top people at Avanti are still ex Virgin/Stagecoach as far as I’m aware. The same largely applies at LNER.

Both were competently operated previously by the same parent (ignoring the technicalities of the Stagecoach/Virgin split) - but Avanti has sadly gone down the drain which is a shame as it was a privatisation success story.