Avanti West Coast Cancellations

[danbarjon]

I wonder what they'll do with the recently wrapped 805s and 807s...

 

[vuzzeho]

I wonder what branding they'll use... Maybe just InterCity West Coast?

 

[ScottGallagher]

I wonder what they'll do with the recently wrapped 805s and 807s...

Nothing at all just remove the Avanti logo

 

[danbarjon]

Nothing at all just remove the Avanti logo

Fair enough, should be pretty simple as long as they don't completely alter the design of the liveries.

 

[dk1]

If you were planning to leave anyway, whether that's to retire or moving to another TOC/FOC, you might not take up the offer of TUPE and instead just leave on the day of handover. Saves working out your notice, particularly if your new employer is keen to have you onboard sooner rather than later.

The time lines would have to absolutely align Other than that it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I wonder what they'll do with the recently wrapped 805s and 807s...

Just re-wrap or paint them eventually. As long as no mention of the parent company or change of company name it doesn’t matter. Will be the usual cool off & changeover period anyway.

Fair enough, should be pretty simple as long as they don't completely alter the design of the liveries.

It’s quite straightforward.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I wonder what branding they'll use... Maybe just InterCity West Coast?

Following the logic of rebranding the InterCity East Coast Mainline train services to LNER (London North Eastern Railway) after the Big Four railway company that served those routes from 1923 to 1947 they could use LMSR (London Midland and Scottish Railway) as the brand name for InterCity West Coast Mainline train services. We already have GWR (Great Western Railway) as the name of the train operator serving the routes served by the former Great Western Railway from 1923 to 1947.

 

[TheSmiths82]

If it happens (Avanti loosing the franchise) I can't see it being anything to do with what the northern mayors have said. However I find it disgusting that Avanti had their contract extended given how awful their performance has been. Although it hasn't all been there fault. When I got stuck in London for the afternoon last year it was due to points failure so I can't blame Avanti for that.

 

[Adam Williams]

Excellent prices but what i was getting at is will such prices disappear if the WCML goes OLR.?

Can't wait for WCML single-leg pricing.

Let's get rid of all those pesky good-value West Mids PTE tickets too that are inconveniently valid on Avanti's services, bin them all off and replace with 50 or so tiers of Advance tickets so that we can do surge pricing without the constraints of a price cap. We can spend a few hundred k on some computer software to fiddle with the availabilities automatically for us and optimise yield.

It'll all be much simpler

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let's get rid of all those pesky good-value West Mids PTE tickets too that are inconveniently valid on Avanti's services, bin them all off and replace with 50 or so tiers of Advance tickets so that we can do surge pricing without the constraints of a price cap. We can spend a few hundred k on some computer software to fiddle with the availabilities automatically for us and optimise yield.

Given that Avanti don't set any of those fares I don't see how they could do anything to them.

 

[185]

Why on earth would they do that?

For people involved in the higher management functions of Avanti, many may want to jump before being pushed. Fairly sure the OLR will be having a close look at where the problems arose from at all levels - middle right to the top of the FirstGroup management.

I wonder what branding they'll use... Maybe just InterCity West Coast?

Whilst it should be gotten rid of, the Avanti brand could stay under DfT ownership, however it could be anything, even LN... oh ignore that

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just re-wrap or paint them eventually. As long as no mention of the parent company or change of company name it doesn’t matter. Will be the usual cool off & changeover period anyway.

I hope they don't change the livery, it's one of my favourites.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Joe article sounds convincing until you realise they have mixed up Avanti contract losses and management fees.
The government and TfN both know quite well that Avanti's issues are long-term and linked to industrial relations.
You only have to look at planned Aslef strike action against OLR TOCs as well as private ones to realise that transfer to OLR is not a magical solution to the issues.

As for the LMSR suggestion - neither the old M nor the old S is valid for the ICWC/Avanti network.
None of the old Midland network is run by ICWC, and Scotland is out of bounds politically.
LNWR is the most appropriate historical name but that was essentially taken by WMT (and what is now Arriva Train Care at Crewe).

Trenitalia might also have lost interest now that HS2 has been sharply reduced in scope.

 

[Horizon22]

If you were planning to leave anyway, whether that's to retire or moving to another TOC/FOC, you might not take up the offer of TUPE and instead just leave on the day of handover. Saves working out your notice, particularly if your new employer is keen to have you onboard sooner rather than later.

Sure, but that's going to be a very small % of the overall workforce.

 

[Rover77]

Inside the new Hitachis there is no Avanti branding at all. They are all in the same design and colours as the refurbished pendos but the Avanti name is nowhere to be seen. Good literally take the name off the outside.

 

[Sorcerer]

While I doubt there will be any livery changes if Avanti goes OLR and instead we will get simple rebranding, I do still find it a bit of a shame that the WCML will be branded with green, blue and orange while the ECML is branded red and maroon. Historically it has been the opposite and it just feels blasphemous to me (combined with the fact I have a biased to red-coloured Pendolinos). However, the important thing I think that needs to be considered here is that the original bid for the West Coast Partnership required consultation from an experienced high speed operator from HS2, so how would the OLR get around this if the state wants the keys back?

 

[Harvey B]

I wonder what they'll do with the recently wrapped 805s and 807s...

Fair enough, should be pretty simple as long as they don't completely alter the design of the liveries.

So far, Every TOC under the OLR (Barring LNER) has kept their original Livery & Logo's from prior to the OLR taking over. LNER is the only exception by creating a distinct livery for the Azuma's as well as reviving a Modern version of the Intercity Swallow for their IC 225 sets (Class 91's, Marks4s &DVTs)

 

[Krokodil]

The time lines would have to absolutely align Other than that it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Industrial relations are very sour at the moment.

Sure, but that's going to be a very small % of the overall workforce.

Oh yes, we're talking single figures. But when you're already cancelling or altering half of the trains you run on certain routes on some days, you really can't afford to lose any more from that depot.

 

[Carlisle]

Inside the new Hitachis there is no Avanti branding at all. They are all in the same design and colours as the refurbished pendos but the Avanti name is nowhere to be seen.

So the seats are Avanti dark blue ? Doesn’t signify anything really as they’re not intended for passenger service until Summer at the earliest

 

[Class93]

I still just do not understand the reasons why bringing these companies into OLR, genuinely, seems to deal with 80% of their problems, fairly quickly. Is it less government oversight? More control?

Personally, I would prefer them all to be run by the state, for the state; but, the logic since privatisation states that more capitalism, more choice, more competition, better service.

EC I do accept there were improvement delays or stock delays that landed in OLRs lap (each time it occurs), SE was a screwup on accounting (let’s leave it at that) but not huge operational issues? Northern and TPE as I understand it aren’t in a great place, but you never, ever hear about them in the news anymore.

Government not briefing against OLR? Government not being hugely involved in OLR? The government truly applying the arms length/Chinese wall approach to management? OLR just seem to have the right processes in place that can be scaled? OLR know how to deal with unions?

 

[Sorcerer]

So far, Every TOC under the OLR (Barring LNER) has kept their original Livery & Logo's from prior to the OLR taking over. LNER is the only exception by creating a distinct livery for the Azuma's as well as reviving a Modern version of the Intercity Swallow for their IC 225 sets (Class 91's, Marks4s &DVTs)

And also, LNER only became the exception because of convenient timing where their takeover was at a time when the 800/801s had received no proper branding (bar a promotional VTEC Flowing Silk on one) and when the 225s were given an overhaul, and thus there was ample opportunity to apply their own branding and livery. The only difference I can see happening with Avanti is possibly removing the Avanti branding given the poor reputation applied to it, and even then that didn't occur with TransPennine Express who were in the same position when they were taken over by OLR.

 

[Brissle Girl]

And also, LNER only became the exception because of convenient timing where their takeover was at a time when the 800/801s had received no proper branding (bar a promotional VTEC Flowing Silk on one) and when the 225s were given an overhaul, and thus there was ample opportunity to apply their own branding and livery. The only difference I can see happening with Avanti is possibly removing the Avanti branding given the poor reputation applied to it, and even then that didn't occur with TransPennine Express who were in the same position when they were taken over by OLR.

I guess the difference is that TransPennine accurately describes the geographical scope of the operation.

In contrast, Avanti is simply a brand dreamt up by a marketing consultancy.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I guess the difference is that TransPennine accurately describes the geographical scope of the operation.

In contrast, Avanti is simply a brand dreamt up by a marketing consultancy.

Likewise with LNER. They don't need to reinvent the wheel, just put a sticker that says 'InterCity West Coast' or something on the trains.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Likewise with LNER. They don't need to reinvent the wheel, just put a sticker that says 'InterCity West Coast' or something on the trains.

I suggest "Grand Junction Railway". It has the double merit in marketing terms of being historically relevant to a core part of the route whilst not giving the public any clue where it goes

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suggest "Grand Junction Railway". It has the double merit in marketing terms of being historically relevant to a core part of the route whilst not giving the public any clue where it goes

I'd go LMS. It's not the classic LMS, but it doesn't have to be. And the M can have two meanings - Midlands and Manchester. And the L London and Liverpool!

 

[class 9]

I guess the difference is that TransPennine accurately describes the geographical scope of the operation.

In contrast, Avanti is simply a brand dreamt up by a marketing consultancy.

Not really, TPEs Manchester to Scotland and Newcastle to Edinburgh services don't cross the pennines!!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

London Midland Scottish still works perfectly fine on technicalities.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As for the LMSR suggestion - neither the old M nor the old S is valid for the ICWC/Avanti network.
None of the old Midland network is run by ICWC, and Scotland is out of bounds politically.
L

Why not? It serves London, the Midlands, and Scotland. (Or Liverpool, Manchester, and the Smoke!)
More accurate than "West coast", at least until a station opens at Hest Bank!
Or, if you like

 

[Krokodil]

Not really, TPEs Manchester to Scotland and Newcastle to Edinburgh services don't cross the pennines!!

The former are in the wrong franchise, and the latter used to run through from Liverpool.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The former are in the wrong franchise, and the latter used to run through from Liverpool.

Indeed. And between them they represent a very small percentage of the overall TransPennine network.

 

[dk1]

Are we expecting an announcement before the markets open at 08:00?