Avanti West Coast - County Court judgement

[Elecman]

The station may be operated by Network Rail but they do not run any ticket offices. Both ticket offices are run by Avanti - in that respect Network Rail, as the freeholder, are no more relevant than they would be if you sent bailiffs to a branch of WH Smith or Greggs at a station.

But the Bailiffs would have to sign in at Contractors reception or they would be escorted off the premises

 

[Watershed]

But the Bailiffs would have to sign in at Contractors reception or they would be escorted off the premises

That's not how it works... They have a Court order/writ which gives them the legal right to access the premises, and even use reasonable force to gain entry if need be. It's like suggesting that you can stop a prepayment meter being fitted by politely asking the engineers to leave!

The police might very well be called, but once they see the documentation they will allow the bailiffs to get on with their job.

 

[Haywain]

That's not how it works... They have a Court order/writ which gives them the legal right to access the premises, and even use reasonable force to gain entry if need be. It's like suggesting that you can stop a prepayment meter being fitted by politely asking the engineers to leave!

The police might very well be called, but once they see the documentation they will allow the bailiffs to get on with their job.

It may not give them legal right to enter a property operated by another business, in this case Network Rail. If that business has asked them to leave I can't see they would have much choice.

 

[tspaul26]

It may not give them legal right to enter a property operated by another business, in this case Network Rail. If that business has asked them to leave I can't see they would have much choice.

Network Rail would be very brave to argue that if it was referred to a judge.

In reality, the bailiffs would be allowed to get on with things.

 

[island]

Anyone interfering with court officers executing a writ would risk being held in contempt of court.

 

[Elecman]

It may not give them legal right to enter a property operated by another business, in this case Network Rail. If that business has asked them to leave I can't see they would have much choice.

I doubt many posters on here have ever tried ‘entering a managed station to do any work‘ the process is exacting and needs RAMS and NOC completing 2 weeks in advance. Even suppliers with Statutory Rights of access ( Utility Companies ) are routinely denied access for failing to comply with those requirements

 

[island]

I doubt many posters on here have ever tried ‘entering a managed station to do any work‘ the process is exacting and needs RAMS and NOC completing 2 weeks in advance. Even suppliers with Statutory Rights of access ( Utility Companies ) are routinely denied access for failing to comply with those requirements

Luckily, high court enforcement officers do not need to follow "RAMS" or "NOC" whatever they are, they have writs issued by the High Court of England and Wales entitling them to go where they need to in order to recover the payment due. They can't be "routinely denied access" or "escorted off", the police will not interfere, and the only way to get rid of them is to pay (or enter into a payment arrangement).

 

[Wolfie]

Luckily, high court enforcement officers do not need to follow "RAMS" or "NOC" whatever they are, they have writs issued by the High Court of England and Wales entitling them to go where they need to in order to recover the payment due. They can't be "routinely denied access" or "escorted off", the police will not interfere, and the only way to get rid of them is to pay (or enter into a payment arrangement).

Absolutely. I would quite like to see some Muppet spout "RAMS" or "NOC" to a judge when he's being done for contempt of Court.... I suspect that a rude awakening would follow.

 

[zero]

SouthEastBuses Thanks for this. An e-mail did it. I gave them a deadline to pay or get a visit from the bailiffs to the address that AlterEgo supplied below. They paid on deadline day.

If you're willing to reveal it, how much was the amount owed, out of curiosity?

 

[Chris Butler]

If you're willing to reveal it, how much was the amount owed, out of curiosity?

It was less than £50 and that includes £10 I added for my 'time and trouble'. Courts are very reluctant to award claimed amounts for 'wasted time' but I always add it because companies never argue about the amount when they settle.

In this case Avanti refused a delay repay for a journey and told me to go to LNER to claim for the unused ticket (I travelled by Chiltern). LNER refused and told me to go back to Avanti. At that point filing a claim (which takes about 15 mins online) was the easiest route and so I claimed against them both. Neither of them replied to the claim and so Default Judgement was issued.

I said 'me'/'I' in all of this, but it was actually my daughter in law who made the journey, but, as a regular court claimant, I guided her through the process.

 

[Haywain]

In this case Avanti refused a delay repay for a journey and told me to go to LNER to claim for the unused ticket (I travelled by Chiltern).

If you travelled with Chiltern why were you claiming Delay Repay from Avanti and LNER?

 

[tspaul26]

If you travelled with Chiltern why were you claiming Delay Repay from Avanti and LNER?

I infer that the original plan was to travel with Avanti, but due to cancellation Chiltern was used instead - hence in inevitable delay due to the longer journey time.

And that the ticket was purchased from LNER, hence why Avanti said ‘get a refund off them’.

 

[Haywain]

I infer that the original plan was to travel with Avanti, but due to cancellation Chiltern was used instead - hence in inevitable delay due to the longer journey time.

And that the ticket was purchased from LNER, hence why Avanti said ‘get a refund off them’.

It would be good to have confirmation though.

 

[Chris Butler]

I infer that the original plan was to travel with Avanti, but due to cancellation Chiltern was used instead - hence in inevitable delay due to the longer journey time.

And that the ticket was purchased from LNER, hence why Avanti said ‘get a refund off them’.

Your inferences are all correct. The clues were there

 

[Argyle 1980]

I pursued Southeastern for a civil claim of £765 in costs after an incident with my daughter. They ignored both the online moneyclaim and the county court claim pack so I was awarded a default judgment which also went unpaid.
The bailff clerk i spoke with at Canterbury Court said what they usually do against railways is go straight for the jugular and threaten a draft statutory demand. Even though they have power to enter places like ticket offices and remove cash from tills and safes it's often a costly and unefficient method as a majority of physical assets are leased etc. In my case this approach worked and they paid the writ in full after receiving the letter from the bailiffs and three weeks later I received a cheque for the full amount.

 

[ainsworth74]

The bailff clerk i spoke with at Canterbury Court said what they usually do against railways is go straight for the jugular and threaten a draft statutory demand. Even though they have power to enter places like ticket offices and remove cash from tills and safes it's often a costly and unefficient method as a majority of physical assets are leased etc. In my case this approach worked and they paid the writ in full after receiving the letter from the bailiffs and three weeks later I received a cheque for the full amount.

Hehehe I'm sure they do pay up quick. After all if they don't respond within 21 days you can apply to have the company wound up if they owe more than £750 (like SouthEastern did in your case)

 

[Argyle 1980]

That's why I think the bailiffs/HC enforcement have the upper hand immediately. The statutory demand to bankrupt the company is a complete non option for any rail franchise regardless of who owns them. The clerk at the court wasn't wrong when they told me they'd be paid within hours, if not minutes of the petition being served.
Basically from what I've heard TOCs have absolutely hundreds of county court claims made against them.
Southeastern's predecessor Connex were notorious for not paying contractors, coach and taxi firms.