Avanti West Coast Shop

[Dan_Frank]

I travelled Euston to Glasgow on Thursday and the shop couldn't accept cards for payment, cash only. I am travelling Glasgow to Euston at the moment and it is the same again. Is this a coincidence or do are Avanti trying to discourage people from using the onboard shop ?

 

[All Line Rover]

Happens all the time. And afaik there's no way to purchase shop credit through their app.

 

[Misici]

i had thiis from Glasgow to Euston last year & no WIFI, was climbing the walls by the time the journey ended.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I travelled Euston to Glasgow on Thursday and the shop couldn't accept cards for payment, cash only. I am travelling Glasgow to Euston at the moment and it is the same again. Is this a coincidence or do are Avanti trying to discourage people from using the onboard shop ?

Does sometimes work the other way round on WCML journeys. Cards / contactless only with TPE. No cash.

 

[JoeM1V]

I was on a double Avanti Voyager set earlier this year where the front set shop was only taking cash and the rear set only taking card.

 

[duffield]

Does sometimes work the other way round on WCML journeys. Cards / contactless only with TPE. No cash.

And this sort of thing is why I always carry both. I was in Luton recently and visited a few pubs. The first one was strictly cash only, but the next one was cards only. Unusual? Maybe. But not unknown. A couple of £20/£10 notes and a few 20p coins (for pay toilets) take up almost no space or weight and may save you some grief, even if you've gone fully cashless in general.

 

[Carlisle]

Totally agree, that’s my experience with pubs too .

 

[pdeaves]

The Avanti service I was on today made the point of being cash or card. Perhaps the card machines are vulnerable to breakdown.

 

[p.d87]

The card machines rely on working WiFi. If that goes down then unfortunately its cash only. Same applies if there's a fault with the card machines.

 

[Starmill]

Does sometimes work the other way round on WCML journeys. Cards / contactless only with TPE. No cash.

I'm sure you know this already, but for the avoidence of doubt on anyone else's part, TPE and GWR's policy is never to accept cash for onboard catering. This is communicated in advance but only if you already knew where to look.

Avanti West Coast officially accept cash and cards but have an issue with the new shops where a large proportion of them can't accept cards for long periods. This isn't communicated in advance.

The only way to deal with this is if you wish to make a purchase from the Avanti West Coast shop is to always carry cash. For 99% of people that means keeping both on hand, or of course just taking the risk of not being able to buy anything onboard.

 

[dk1]

It’s always been like that. I always carry around £50 in cash for such eventualities.

 

[185143]

I'm in a pub in Huddersfield which could only take cash when I walked it. So I went and got some, ordered my pint and paid in cash and the card readers suddenly started working again as soon as the next person making a run to the cash machine came back.

So it can happen anywhere, and certainly isn't limited to trains!

 

[Stuart-h]

Im fairly sure avanti's card readers realy on a decent internet connection to work. I how evea stand to be corrected.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I'm sure you know this already, but for the avoidence of doubt on anyone else's part, TPE and GWR's policy is never to accept cash for onboard catering. This is communicated in advance but only if you already knew where to look.

CrossCountry only accepted cards for a while but have now resumed accepting cash.

 

[Facing Back]

The card machines rely on working WiFi. If that goes down then unfortunately its cash only. Same applies if there's a fault with the card machines.

Is this a fault with the wifi on the train or that there isn't sufficient infrastructure to get a good 4/5g signal at all points on the journey? Judging by how often I can't get an internet or phone connection either through my phone or the train wi-fi on a journey from manchester to london, the service is doomed if they are using card only and require an active connection for each transaction. Transpennine must be even worse. How do airlines do it? They take credit cards on flights where they are often some distance from the nearest phone tower?

 

[Gemz91]

I'm in a pub in Huddersfield which could only take cash when I walked it. So I went and got some, ordered my pint and paid in cash and the card readers suddenly started working again as soon as the next person making a run to the cash machine came back.

So it can happen anywhere, and certainly isn't limited to trains!

Of course the difference is, if a pub is cash only, usually there will be a cash machine a short walk away to allow you to get some cash.

If a train is cash only, for what ever reason, you have no option to go to a cash machine unless you leave the train (or find a kind person who will give you some cash and let you transfer the money).

For a long journey like Euston to Glasgow it’s not unreasonable that passengers will expect to be able to get a drink or something to eat on board. Maybe an announcement at the station before boarding would be an idea to allow passengers to either get cash or buy food before they board.

 

[jfollows]

Is this a fault with the wifi on the train or that there isn't sufficient infrastructure to get a good 4/5g signal at all points on the journey? Judging by how often I can't get an internet or phone connection either through my phone or the train wi-fi on a journey from manchester to london, the service is doomed if they are using card only and require an active connection for each transaction. Transpennine must be even worse. How do airlines do it? They take credit cards on flights where they are often some distance from the nearest phone tower?

Airlines are different, the transactions are handled offline at time of payment and uploaded and reconciled after landing, sometimes after a couple of days in my recent experience. There is scope for fraud, of course, but at least the airlines generally know more about you than would be the case onboard trains.

 

[Starmill]

Is this a fault with the wifi on the train or that there isn't sufficient infrastructure to get a good 4/5g signal at all points on the journey? Judging by how often I can't get an internet or phone connection either through my phone or the train wi-fi on a journey from manchester to london, the service is doomed if they are using card only and require an active connection for each transaction. Transpennine must be even worse. How do airlines do it? They take credit cards on flights where they are often some distance from the nearest phone tower?

Used to be simple and straightforward to accept card payments offline. Still possible if you're taking the fraud risk like an airline.

However it's not permitted to store card numbers insecurely as used to be the case. Hull Trains used card imprinting onto carbon paper as late as 2014 which I found crazy. That's not permitted now.

There is scope for fraud, of course, but at least the airlines generally know more about you than would be the case onboard trains.

They can't get your name and address to contact you about a payment declining just from your card details though.

 

[Merseysider]

They can't get your name and address to contact you about a payment declining just from your card details though.

Other airlines may be different but Ryanair have always entered my seat number at the time of purchase onboard, which being tied to my booking, mitigates against this somewhat.

 

[Starmill]

Other airlines may be different but Ryanair have always entered my seat number at the time of purchase onboard, which being tied to my booking, mitigates against this somewhat.

I do wonder if they maintain a log of where people actually sit onboard, rather than where people are booked to sit. Cabin crew can in theory request people to move seats.

 

[All Line Rover]

For a long journey like Euston to Glasgow it’s not unreasonable that passengers will expect to be able to get a drink or something to eat on board. Maybe an announcement at the station before boarding would be an idea to allow passengers to either get cash or buy food before they board.

Warning passengers in advance would be too difficult though. (Probably explains why I've never seen it done.)

On a "budget" airline, if the card machine for catering fails or is broken, in my experience staff comp it. But that, also, would be far too much trouble for a passenger holding a £400 Standard Anytime Return from London to Glasgow. It is the passenger who is being unreasonable for expecting to be able to purchase a tea or bottle of water during their five hour journey.

 

[thomas_2312]

I do wonder if they maintain a log of where people actually sit onboard, rather than where people are booked to sit. Cabin crew can in theory request people to move seats.

as cabin crew, we do maintain a log

 

[Puffing Devil]

I have £20 tucked into the back of my phone case and another on my keyring in one of these:

 

[Kite159]

Of course the difference is, if a pub is cash only, usually there will be a cash machine a short walk away to allow you to get some cash.

Assuming said cash machine is free to withdraw money and doesn't cost you £3,99+

 

[Falcon1200]

Warning passengers in advance would be too difficult though. (Probably explains why I've never seen it done.)

Perhaps there should be a permanent warning, on the lines of 'Normally we accept cash and card payments on board, but the latter cannot be guaranteed due to occasional internet connection issues'?

 

[Watershed]

Warning passengers in advance would be too difficult though. (Probably explains why I've never seen it done.)

On a "budget" airline, if the card machine for catering fails or is broken, in my experience staff comp it. But that, also, would be far too much trouble for a passenger holding a £400 Standard Anytime Return from London to Glasgow. It is the passenger who is being unreasonable for expecting to be able to purchase a tea or bottle of water during their five hour journey.

To be fair, there are very few scenarios in which it would make sense for anyone to buy an Anytime Return for that journey. The Off-Peak Single/Return is only restricted on the first southbound train of the day, departing at the ungodly hour of 04:28, and for northbound departures before 09:05.

However I agree that the industry's attitude to this is very poor. Why isn't it possible to pay online if the card machine breaks?

 

[sor]

Used to be simple and straightforward to accept card payments offline. Still possible if you're taking the fraud risk like an airline.

However it's not permitted to store card numbers insecurely as used to be the case. Hull Trains used card imprinting onto carbon paper as late as 2014 which I found crazy. That's not permitted now.

In ye olde FGW days (2011 or 2012 or so) they had the height of technology for buffet car purchases - still reading the magstripe. I remember the transaction taking a very long time to appear, so no idea how often they batched up the data to send off to the banks.

Are "online only cards" still a thing? I was with Natwest and remember falling foul of this, they certainly used to issue both and until contactless cards appeared it was very difficult to get them to issue the full functionality card (even if you would qualify, it was a matter of finding someone who knew what you were asking for). It wouldn't work on board the train, at least with the card terminals of the time, and on certain petrol pumps.

 

[Starmill]

Why isn't it possible to pay online if the card machine breaks?

I believe it is, as you may use their click and collect service with online payment - but only if the onboard WiFi is working. Given the WiFi being broken is the most common cause of the card machine being broken that's about as much use as...

 

[jon0844]

I don't know how much money an onboard shop takes in any given day, but if I was Avanti I'd be giving staff the means to activate their work phone as a hotspot to enable the terminal to do a card authorisation. Or even using terminals with integrated LTE/NR modems.

 

[High Dyke]

How refreshing to use cash on a train journey. Not everyone wants to be forced to use cards.