Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Seems like a bit of a mess of a roll out, but overall it makes sense. I'm regularly travelling London-Glasgow and could usually get a Seatfrog upgrade for £25-£30, so the same price for Standard Premium doesn't seem that appealing to me

My thoughts exactly. I'm used to upgrading to the full service for £10-£20, not a half hearted attempt with no service for £25-£30.

 

[takno]

As I have the option of LNER from Edinburgh, once normal First Class service resumes that could make that more appealing to me than Avanti even if it takes a bit longer.

I would guess that LNER will the watching the rollout fairly closely. First class has been a mess of cheap upgrades and resentful premium passengers for years now

 

[Butts]

Speaking to the Train Manager on my journey last night she mentioned that at the moment it's just a soft launch to gauge how it works before large numbers of passengers return. Services are generally very quiet and there's still social distancing so very limited capacity in all coaches. At the moment there are still 'Cheaper' Advance First tickets hence why some services are busier in 1st but think she said sometime in September is the bigger launch. Apparently it wasn't well briefed to staff or negotiatied beforehand.
The plan for First Class from September will be far better food & service style, upgrades also coming to station first class lounges as well with acces for only First Class ticket holders. But as expected this will come at a price, the lower tiers of Advance 1st under approx £80-100 will become Advance Premium she said and no 'cheap' upgrades to First Class it'll be the full upgrade cost. Seatfrog is being looked at but won't be the bargain fares we've all enjoyed, either it'll be significantly higher in cost, become a Std Premium product only or be scrapped altogether.
Basically it seems First Class will become a more exclusive product rather than from what it became by trying to be everything to everyone & let's be honest the ones paying the high fares ( which I wouldn't dream of) weren't really getting anything special but the ones on the really cheap tickets were and as some have put on here basically "Let's see if I can eat & drink my ticket price".
Std Premium will be aimed at those who want a better seat, table, plug sockets at a reasonable price but no frills.
As she said, if you want a better room in a hotel or a better seat at the theatre , of a concert etc with all the trimmings then people expect to pay way more for that, so why should the railways be expected to be any different.
Personally I'll use Premium for a better seat, space & most probably at weekends.
I'm sure once things begin to return to normal whenever that may be and it's launched fully then we can see how well it all works

Are we talking about Lounges and Onboard Service comparable with BA Club Europe ?

By that I am alluding to Malt Whisky on free-flow et al amongst other desirable freebies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are we talking about Lounges and Onboard Service comparable with BA Club Europe ?

By that I am alluding to Malt Whisky on free-flow et al amongst other desirable freebies.

In a sense LCY is one big lounge. At least that was how it was conceived, it just gets too full for that now (pre COVID).

I'm not sure there is any point in business class on domestics.

 

[Butts]

In a sense LCY is one big lounge. At least that was how it was conceived, it just gets too full for that now (pre COVID).

I'm not sure there is any point in business class on domestics.

Try saying that as you sup The Glenlivet and chow down on a lovely little chicken salad and a delicious chocolate dessert.

The point is they make money from Business Class ( other than freeloader's like me on minimal fares)

 

[williamn]

Business Class on domestic flights (only recently reintroduced by BA) primarily makes sense for passengers transferring from Long Haul, so they don't suddenly go from a lovely Club World experience to being cramped into economy. I'm not sure it makes sense on its own.

If Avanti were to introduce a Club-like experience with excellent food and drink I would be very tempted to use it on occasion, esp on something like the 18.40 Glasgow to London which I'm taking tomorrow. As it is the first class offerings are very meagre, so an M+S picnic in standard is preferable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Business Class on domestic flights (only recently reintroduced by BA) primarily makes sense for passengers transferring from Long Haul, so they don't suddenly go from a lovely Club World experience to being cramped into economy. I'm not sure it makes sense on its own.

If Avanti were to introduce a Club-like experience with excellent food and drink I would be very tempted to use it on occasion, esp on something like the 18.40 Glasgow to London which I'm taking tomorrow. As it is the first class offerings are very meagre, so an M+S picnic in standard is preferable.

Why not an M&S picnic in Standard Premium, which is what I will be doing? Wider seat and decent table to eat it from.

 

[Butts]

Why not an M&S picnic in Standard Premium, which is what I will be doing? Wider seat and decent table to eat it from.

Not if there is unlimited Glenlivet and possibly Champagne available further up

 

[williamn]

Why not an M&S picnic in Standard Premium, which is what I will be doing? Wider seat and decent table to eat it from.

I guess because it grates that last time I got First Class for £25 (via Seatfrog)! So paying more for less doesn't sit well with me! If First was obviously a LOT better I'd be prepared to fork out more. Plus in my experience those late trains out of Glasgow are fairly empty so I can probably get a table to myself in standard.

 

[Butts]

I guess because it grates that last time I got First Class for £25 (via Seatfrog)! So paying more for less doesn't sit well with me! If First was obviously a LOT better I'd be prepared to fork out more. Plus in my experience those late trains out of Glasgow are fairly empty so I can probably get a table to myself in standard.

If it is becoming like an Airline in 1st then service should be on demand -ie you have a call button and summon a Steward - or more likely an app based ordering system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess because it grates that last time I got First Class for £25 (via Seatfrog)! So paying more for less doesn't sit well with me! If First was obviously a LOT better I'd be prepared to fork out more. Plus in my experience those late trains out of Glasgow are fairly empty so I can probably get a table to myself in standard.

The thing about Seatfrog is that it is a way of selling unsold seats at a very budget price, a la lowest-rate Advances, Megabus £1 seats etc. It isn't a sustainable business for quite so many seats to be sold that way.

If it is becoming like an Airline in 1st then service should be on demand -ie you have a call button and summon a Steward - or more likely an app based ordering system.

That's on offer in all classes now, isn't it? But I guess the new uber-First will have dedicated stewards in a far smaller number of coaches than at present.

 

[All Line Rover]

That's on offer in all classes now, isn't it? But I guess the new uber-First will have dedicated stewards in a far smaller number of coaches than at present.

At-seat ordering is available in standard and standard premium, but not in first!

Dedicated stewards are all well and good, but I expect you'll still have the situation of popping to the toilet / buffet (e.g. for a decent coffee) straight after boarding, the stewards missing you, then nothing for the next two hours. Better to be able to request what you want, when you want it.

As for "free alcohol" now being available in first on weekends, the range and quality is so poor, if you want a decent drink I suggest you upgrade to standard premium and BYOB. You'll be left with plenty of change to spare. At many times of day, even if bringing champagne.

 

[Butts]

At-seat ordering is available in standard and standard premium, but not in first!

Dedicated stewards are all well and good, but I expect you'll still have the situation of popping to the toilet / buffet (e.g. for a decent coffee) straight after boarding, the stewards missing you, then nothing for the next two hours. Better to be able to request what you want, when you want it.

As for "free alcohol" now being available in first on weekends, the range and quality is so poor, if you want a decent drink I suggest you upgrade to standard premium and BYOB. You'll be left with plenty of change to spare. At many times of day, even if bringing champagne.

Is the Cider different from the weekday issue as I found that quite palatable.

 

[StephenHunter]

I tried the at-seat ordering yesterday on a trip to Coventry. I was unable to check out my order on the outward trip and was unable to connect at all on the return Super Voyager journey.

Mind you, for a long journey, the upgrade would be worth it.

 

[williamn]

Well I saw my 18.40 Glasgow to Euston train was 'sold out' tonight so in order to make sure I had peace and quiet I decided to do what @Bletchleyite suggested, and upgraded to Standard Premium with a M+S picnic. No announcements about it so I am the only person in it! I think I could have got away without paying but said to the conductor 'I think I need to pay you a supplement' and he said no one had told him that it had started yet and was surprised to find the fare on his machine!

 

[Butts]

Well I saw my 18.40 Glasgow to Euston train was 'sold out' tonight so decided to do what @Bletchleyite suggested, upgraded to Standard Premium with a M+S picnic. No announcements about it so I am the only person in it! I think I could have got away without paying but said to the conductor 'I think I need to pay you a supplement' and he said no one had told him that it had started yet and was surprised to find the fare on his machine!

He could have let you off as a pioneer !!

As a matter of interest what did you have to cough up ?

I was at LCY where there was a flight to Glasgow ( I was going to Edinburgh and it took 45 mins)

 

[williamn]

£30 for Glasgow - London.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Confusingly looking at a couple of services which are booked to be formed of Pendolinos on next Monday, the system is offering me First Class seats in coach H- is Avanti certain it will be a 11-car set? I was under the impression they're only reserving seats in J and K now in case a 9-car set is allocated, where only J and K are First Class and H is Standard Premium.

 

[BHXDMT]

Confusingly looking at a couple of services which are booked to be formed of Pendolinos on next Monday, the system is offering me First Class seats in coach H- is Avanti certain it will be a 11-car set? I was under the impression they're only reserving seats in J and K now in case a 9-car set is allocated, where only J and K are First Class and H is Standard Premium.

I'm on an 11 Coach service to Manchester at the moment, G has Standard Premium headrests but HJK all have First Class headrests. The TM only announced G as Standard Premium and JK as First, no mention of H. So not sure what's going on.

 

[Furrball]

Sounds like a response to complaints of all first class being squeezed into k and j?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Sounds like a response to complaints of all first class being squeezed into k and j?

Quite possibly. I may be mistaken, but I think the Avanti website FAQ about Standard Premium used to state which carriages on 9/11 car Pendolinos will be Standard Premium, but it doesn't anymore.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Due to the lack of demand for Standard Premium and the same demand for First, the Standard Premium allocation has been cut back till when (or if) demand needs it. They don't want First passengers downgrading as there's more room in Standard Premium & that's the reality they faced.

 

[takno]

Sounds like the reality is that they haven't told any of their passengers, or indeed some of their staff, about it, and haven't removed the cheaper tiers of first class. If that's the reality they face then it's a reality they have created.

 

[ScotTrains]

With the much needed improvements to the 1st class offering and new lounges opening I think 1st class demand will be very healthy. I'll certainly want to use it more (if I can afford it!). I therefore think they should keep as many first class coaches as possible.

Instead, I think they should convert one or two standard class coaches to standard premium with more tables/ less seats in either a 2-2 or 2-1 layout. The remaining standard class coaches should be reconfigured with more seats but less/no tables.

This way people will now want to pay more to upgrade rather than less to downgrade.

 

[voyagerdude220]

With the much needed improvements to the 1st class offering and new lounges opening I think 1st class demand will be very healthy. I'll certainly want to use it more (if I can afford it!). I therefore think they should keep as many first class coaches as possible.

Instead, I think they should convert one or two standard class coaches to standard premium with more tables/ less seats in either a 2-2 or 2-1 layout. The remaining standard class coaches should be reconfigured with more seats but less/no tables.

This way people will now want to pay more to upgrade rather than less to downgrade.

I agree, yet they're doing the opposite of this on the 11 coach Pendolinos by converting G to Standard, although I wonder if it will remain lettered G, with it being next to coach U.

 

[XAM2175]

I'll certainly want to use it more (if I can afford it!). I therefore think they should keep as many first class coaches as possible.

This being the entire fallacy. You could have the most desirable first-class product to ever grace the rails but it's a waste of money providing capacity for people who'll drool all over the pictures but who won't open their wallets. If you then try to cut your losses by filling it with cheap upgrades you devalue the product twice over - once by reducing the exclusivity, and secondly by teaching people that there's no need to ever pay full price for it. Witness the situation many airlines in got themselves into in the United States.

My feeling is that standard premium offers most of what's wanted by the majority of people who are actually paying for first nowadays, in addition to attracting a proportion of passengers who would usually book standard. Jazzed-up first will be positioned as 'aspirational', 'an experience', etc etc.

I think they should convert one or two standard class coaches to standard premium with more tables/ less seats in either a 2-2 or 2-1 layout.

I'm not seeing anything premium about using 2-2 seats for standard premium...

 

[Trackman]

Confusingly looking at a couple of services which are booked to be formed of Pendolinos on next Monday, the system is offering me First Class seats in coach H- is Avanti certain it will be a 11-car set? I was under the impression they're only reserving seats in J and K now in case a 9-car set is allocated, where only J and K are First Class and H is Standard Premium.

Which service was this on?
For me EUS-MAN has been a J&K only in recent weeks even if a 11 car turns up.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Which service was this on?
For me EUS-MAN has been a J&K only in recent weeks even if a 11 car turns up.

I looked at a few different ones between Manchester/Preston and London a few days ago for today. Coincidentally at least 2 of them which produced reservations in coach H were formed of 9 car Pendolinos today.

 

[py_megapixel]

Upgrades are now being advertised on the LCD destination boards. For some reason they are erroneously quoting the prices in dollars - not sure what that's about; maybe the boards use a limited character set which doesn't have a pound symbol?




In general it frustrates me when displays intended for running information are taken over with information which could just as well fit on a static poster - and if they really wanted to advertise it, there's a massive gaping space on the door below which I'm sure could get an eye-catching vinyl decal, rather than squeezing the text onto that display which I'm fairly sure people don't do any more than glance at for a couple of seconds.
However in this case it bothers me less as that row of the display is specifically reserved for such additional information.

Pictures show the screen in the door of an Avanti Pendolino, with the bottom row reading UPGRADES = PREMIUM $25, 1ST CLASS FROM $97

 

[Trackman]

Upgrades are now being advertised on the LCD destination boards. For some reason they are erroneously quoting the prices in dollars - not sure what that's about; maybe the boards use a limited character set which doesn't have a pound symbol?

View attachment 97884View attachment 97885


In general it frustrates me when displays intended for running information are taken over with information which could just as well fit on a static poster - and if they really wanted to advertise it, there's a massive gaping space on the door below which I'm sure could get an eye-catching vinyl decal, rather than squeezing the text onto that display which I'm fairly sure people don't do any more than glance at for a couple of seconds.
However in this case it bothers me less as that row of the display is specifically reserved for such additional information.

Pictures show the screen in the door of an Avanti Pendolino, with the bottom row reading UPGRADES = PREMIUM $25, 1ST CLASS FROM $97

I'm unable to view the attachments, could please edit and try again? (or is it just me!)