Aylesbury-ites who'd like to head north by rail

[70014IronDuke]

Do any of 'em do it?

Not the three miles to Ayelsbury Vale Parkway, of course, but seriously north?

I only ask because the passenger usage figures for Princes Risborough do not show any numbers for interchange. (surely at least SOME normals used to change to and from the former Bubble car trains at Risboro?)

I assume this lack of breakdown in passenger usage data is an oversight - that some folk from Ayelsbury do cross to Risboro and then head north to Banbury, Brum and beyond.

But how many? Wouldn't such figures be useful in determining at least some of the potential usage of the East-West link to Milton Keynes and Bedford?

 

[yorkie]

I've not seen these figures, but clearly it isn't accurate to say no-one interchanges at Princes Risborough.

 

[Ianno87]

I think a fair bit of railheading to Milton Keynes happens from Aylesbury area.

Some may head to Haddenham & Thame Parkway too.

Remember that Aylesbury isn't *that* big a town (although there is some student demand), so demand to points north is unlikely to be that high in the grand scheme of things.

 

[RPM]

A lot of Aylesbury people drive to Haddenham, or even Leighton Buzzard if they want to go north. You do see people making northbound connections at Princes Risborough, but not in large numbers.

 

[route:oxford]

But how many? Wouldn't such figures be useful in determining at least some of the potential usage of the East-West link to Milton Keynes and Bedford?

A colleague does Aylesbury to Oxford by train in the morning, it's revolutionised their commute dropping from about 2 hours by car and park & ride to 1 hour by train.

In the evening, the connection is really poor - so he tends to train it to Haddenham then grab the 280 which would have left Oxford Station about 40 minutes before his train.

Aylesbury has really benefited from the two routes to London over the years. It's really missed out by not having that service connection to Milton Keynes or a West facing curve that would have allowed a route to Oxford

 

[Starmill]

I have changed at Princes Risborough, so at least one person has

Connections are very poor though. There are almost no trains to Birmingham from Princes Risborough and not good connections from the branch.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think a fair bit of railheading to Milton Keynes happens from Aylesbury area.

Some may head to Haddenham & Thame Parkway too.

Remember that Aylesbury isn't *that* big a town (although there is some student demand), so demand to points north is unlikely to be that high in the grand scheme of things.

72,000 according to Wiki. I realise that - partly due to history - it is a go to London town (couldn't go very much elsewhere, even when the GC was open, considering the cr*p service) but that's still a fair few limbs and lungs and other stuff breathing away.

But yet, it makes sense, if heading north and car-less, to bus it to Leighton Buzzard or MK.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I have changed at Princes Risborough, so at least one person has

Connections are very poor though. There are almost no trains to Birmingham from Princes Risborough and not good connections from the branch.

Indeed - I have only now looked at the timetable on the branch. I had assumed it was clock-face hourly. It's basically peak hour only. That really restricts its use as a link-line.

And the usage of the two intermediate halts is poor. Little Kimble could be closed and hardly anyone would notice. Wow, what a wasted link. It should be a priority to get this connected into an hourly - Wycombe to Milton Keynes service as soon as the East-West link is open.

 

[70014IronDuke]

A colleague does Aylesbury to Oxford by train in the morning, it's revolutionised their commute dropping from about 2 hours by car and park & ride to 1 hour by train.

In the evening, the connection is really poor - so he tends to train it to Haddenham then grab the 280 which would have left Oxford Station about 40 minutes before his train.

As I wrote above, I had no idea the branch had such a poor service until just now. I wonder, given that Chiltern must see an increase in usage with the onset of the Oxford service, if Chiltern could justify making it hourly. If, that is, they have the stock.

Aylesbury has really benefited from the two routes to London over the years. It's really missed out by not having that service connection to Milton Keynes or a West facing curve that would have allowed a route to Oxford.

Or both. Hopefully, both will happen.

If Mr Marples had only consulted me in 1965, I would have made no bones about it - as a condition for closure of the GC, BR must be made to provide an Aylesbury to Bletchely service. (no MK at the time, of course)

Only, for some reason known only to himself, Mr Marples did not deign to speak to a spotty teenager struggling with his French O level

 

[The Planner]

A west facing curve where? Prince Risborough or Calvert? More chance of Skipton to Colne reopening and Bald Rick paying out than either of those, especially with HS2 at Calvert.

 

[70014IronDuke]

A west facing curve where? Prince Risborough or Calvert? More chance of Skipton to Colne reopening and Bald Rick paying out than either of those, especially with HS2 at Calvert.

I assumed he meant at Calvert, allowing an Aylesbury to Oxford direct service. But I'd forgotten about HS2 coming onto the scene. I suppose that will dominate the landscape at Calvert. Assuming it is built.

Perhaps you could still do Aylesbury - Winslow - Oxford quite quickly when East-West opens, depending on connection times.

 

[Class 170101]

A colleague does Aylesbury to Oxford by train in the morning, it's revolutionised their commute dropping from about 2 hours by car and park & ride to 1 hour by train.

In the evening, the connection is really poor - so he tends to train it to Haddenham then grab the 280 which would have left Oxford Station about 40 minutes before his train.

Aylesbury has really benefited from the two routes to London over the years. It's really missed out by not having that service connection to Milton Keynes or a West facing curve that would have allowed a route to Oxford

There are some fast journeys (60 - 90 mins) between Oxford and Aylesbury in this directions but sadly yes there aren't many.

Something for Chiltern to look at maybe.

 

[Metroman62]

I have to travel to Birmingham and Kidderminster quite often from Amersham. It would be great to go via Aylesbury but I have to bus it to Wycombe or go via London. If the service to MK ever happens from Aylesbury I suspect I will have retired (only a couple of years!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RPM]

I'm not sure if there is much scope in terms of spare paths over the branch. As well as the Chiltern services there are several freight paths, some of which are less than obvious because they only run as required.

And there is absolutely no spare rolling stock for additional services. It is stretched to the limit as it is

 

[The Planner]

It used to be a lot worse before the IB was put in at Little Kimble.

 

[30907]

Indeed - I have only now looked at the timetable on the branch. I had assumed it was clock-face hourly. It's basically peak hour only. That really restricts its use as a link-line.

I assume you have been looking at Table 115? In typical NR fashion this is spectacularly deficient, with all Marylebone to Aylesbury trains omitted throughout.

Your original assumption was correct. There is a regular hourly service, but it runs on the opposite half hour to the Banbury service at Risborough. This is inevitable, given the single line Aylesbury branch.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I assume you have been looking at Table 115? In typical NR fashion this is spectacularly deficient, with all Marylebone to Aylesbury trains omitted throughout.

Your original assumption was correct. There is a regular hourly service, but it runs on the opposite half hour to the Banbury service at Risborough. This is inevitable, given the single line Aylesbury branch.

Yes. I was looking at the NR timetable. Appalling.
I wonder if Chiltern should sue. Certainly I would not have tried to travel this way based on the NR Table 115.

 

[route:oxford]

A west facing curve where? Prince Risborough or Calvert? More chance of Skipton to Colne reopening and Bald Rick paying out than either of those, especially with HS2 at Calvert.

I meant at Calvert.

And was thinking of it happening more in the days when Network SouthEast were running the services - back in those days Equitable Life employed 1000s of people in the heart of Aylesbury.

 

[RPM]

It used to be a lot worse before the IB was put in at Little Kimble.

Yes that was a big improvement. Evergreen 2 IIRC.

 

[higthomas]

There are some fast journeys (60 - 90 mins) between Oxford and Aylesbury in this directions but sadly yes there aren't many.

Something for Chiltern to look at maybe.

Given that the 280 bus is every 20 minutes and goes to Oxford city centre and takes about 80 minutes off peak (about 100 minutes peak) I feel the market for that kind of service would be fairly limited.

 

[gingerheid]

I used to live there. Journeys north usually started with a bus; whether to MK, Leighton Buzzard, Hemel Hempsted, Luton (as was possible in those days), Haddenham & Thame or possibly even Oxford.

Planning journeys was a pig, but you did have the best possible chance of getting a cheap fare!

 

[70014IronDuke]

It used to be a lot worse before the IB was put in at Little Kimble.

IB = intermediate block (Section) or ?

 

[Crossover]

IB = intermediate block (Section) or ?

I think it is that - I do seem to recall seeing a set of signals at some point on the single line. Means you can put two trains out in the same direction rather than the entire branch being One Train Working

 

[70014IronDuke]

I meant at Calvert.

And was thinking of it happening more in the days when Network SouthEast were running the services - back in those days Equitable Life employed 1000s of people in the heart of Aylesbury.

Equitable Life has presumably closed/downsized/relocated/died (as you use past tense).

That still leaves 72,000 souls in Aylesbury yearning in their hearts and crying themselves to sleep at night for lack of direct northbound rail travel.

(plus, of course, as contributors on here have pointed out, scores of thousands of Amershamites and other tribes further south with similar woes).

(Even Corby has 2 (or 3?) trains a day going north, dammit!)

If there is no west curve to go in at Calvert to facilitate a direct Oxford service, is an interchange station with Oxford-Bletchley planned?

 

[Starmill]

Won't the potential advent of East - West Rail help to solve this? I'm not sure what else could be practical.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Won't the potential advent of East - West Rail help to solve this? I'm not sure what else could be practical.

It will allow direct access to Milton Keynes (AIUI). I just wondered if there will be a station at Calvert, or (I suspect) to get to Oxford would mean going to Winslow and then doubling back.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Won't the potential advent of East - West Rail help to solve this?

The plan appears to be a service from Princes Risborough to Milton Keynes via Aylesbury, Wilnslow and Bletchley.

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/east-west-rail-central-section.pdf

 

[swt_passenger]

The plan appears to be a service from Princes Risborough to Milton Keynes via Aylesbury, Wilnslow and Bletchley.

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/east-west-rail-central-section.pdf

It starts in Marylebone. Not clear in that linked summary, but there are a few other EWR publications that describe it as running through from Marylebone.

 

[The Planner]

It will allow direct access to Milton Keynes (AIUI). I just wondered if there will be a station at Calvert, or (I suspect) to get to Oxford would mean going to Winslow and then doubling back.

Passive provision at Steeple Claydon, not Calvert.

 

[edwin_m]

It starts in Marylebone. Not clear in that linked summary, but there are a few other EWR publications that describe it as running through from Marylebone.

Thereby also serving flows such as High Wycombe to MK which should produce a reasonable number of passengers but not enough to justify the service on its own. Aylesbury to Oxford would then be possible changing either at Winslow or at Princes Risborough, and hopefully the timetable would produce a decent connection by at one or other of these routes. I hope Grayling's vertically integrated railway on East West doesn't prevent this useful service operating, as the logical thing to do is to integrate it with the Chiltern network rather than adding a second operator at Marylebone.