Bad day for Transport for Wales [12/11/18]

[Old Yard Dog]

I had my first experience of Transport for Wales on Saturday and it wasn't good. The 0945 from Llandudno to Manchester Airport was only a 2-car class 158 and it was seriously overcrowded with standing room only from Chester onwards. Only a dozen or so free seats were available for the many of us joining there. More people joined at Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East and, with Northern on strike, the numbers joining at Warrington BQ, Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows well way above average. Some passengers decided not to travel rather than join the crush. Did it not occur to TfW that this would occur? There were no apologies from the train crew who stayed out of sight throughout.

After finding out that TPE had cancelled some early evening trains from Victoria to Liverpool, I decided to return to the Wirral via Crewe only to find that TfW had cancelled all their short Crewe - Chester workings. I was relieved to find that Virgin were running a 10-car set at 1852 - it was needed.

I was rather sad when ATW lost the franchise and I hope this isn't a sign that TfW will be a poor replacement. Maybe they were stretched as some barmpots allowed a Premier league football match and a rugby union international to take place in Cardiff on the same day?

 

[Llanigraham]

It has been well reported on here that TfW have problems at the moment with units out of use due to damage and modifications, so where do you expect them to find extra units?

 

[PHILIPE]

I had my first experience of Transport for Wales on Saturday and it wasn't good. The 0945 from Llandudno to Manchester Airport was only a 2-car class 158 and it was seriously overcrowded with standing room only from Chester onwards. Only a dozen or so free seats were available for the many of us joining there. More people joined at Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East and, with Northern on strike, the numbers joining at Warrington BQ, Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows well way above average. Some passengers decided not to travel rather than join the crush. Did it not occur to TfW that this would occur? There were no apologies from the train crew who stayed out of sight throughout.

After finding out that TPE had cancelled some early evening trains from Victoria to Liverpool, I decided to return to the Wirral via Crewe only to find that TfW had cancelled all their short Crewe - Chester workings. I was relieved to find that Virgin were running a 10-car set at 1852 - it was needed.

I was rather sad when ATW lost the franchise and I hope this isn't a sign that TfW will be a poor replacement. Maybe they were stretched as some barmpots allowed a Premier league football match and a rugby union international to take place in Cardiff on the same day?

The TFW shortages and mention of Rugby have been posted here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/atw-keolis-amey-wales-prm-fleet-updates.166304/page-8

 

[6Gman]

I had my first experience of Transport for Wales on Saturday and it wasn't good. The 0945 from Llandudno to Manchester Airport was only a 2-car class 158 and it was seriously overcrowded with standing room only from Chester onwards. Only a dozen or so free seats were available for the many of us joining there. More people joined at Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East and, with Northern on strike, the numbers joining at Warrington BQ, Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows well way above average. Some passengers decided not to travel rather than join the crush. Did it not occur to TfW that this would occur? There were no apologies from the train crew who stayed out of sight throughout.

After finding out that TPE had cancelled some early evening trains from Victoria to Liverpool, I decided to return to the Wirral via Crewe only to find that TfW had cancelled all their short Crewe - Chester workings. I was relieved to find that Virgin were running a 10-car set at 1852 - it was needed.

I was rather sad when ATW lost the franchise and I hope this isn't a sign that TfW will be a poor replacement. Maybe they were stretched as some barmpots allowed a Premier league football match and a rugby union international to take place in Cardiff on the same day?

What action do you believe they should have taken?

 

[Starmill]

with Northern on strike

Are they?

 

[Polarbear]

With respect, TfW haven't yet had the opportunity to source any new or additional rolling stock. They've only got what ATW had to work with, which was thinly stretched at the best of times and even more so when there's an event on in Cardiff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was rather sad when ATW lost the franchise and I hope this isn't a sign that TfW will be a poor replacement.

They won't change substantially to start with - it's not like they can wander over to the CAF rolling stock tree and pick a couple of units.

 

[Arriva 175]

Somebody mentioned on the Bidston to Wrexham line on Saturday that the consistent delays for that day made it the worst line in England!!! I think that the people of the Northern franchise area and those who live in Dawlish or points west would say otherwise. Like people have mentioned numerous times ATW was a no growth franchise. There wasn't enough rolling stock a decade ago never mind now and there is nothing up for grabs to make an immediate impact for TFW. Problems are only being further increased by DDA mods and the weather.

 

[uvarvu]

Well at least they have a new logo now.

Our starting point was ‘movement’ with the core marque designed to exist in perpetual motion. A bespoke stencil typeface followed (based on Cymru Wales Sans), and the Cymru Wales nation brand colour palette was extended with transport requirements in mind. Comprehensive identity guidelines have been produced detailing the brand’s application across transport livery, wayfinding and mapping. The brand was launched officially in June 2018 and future phases will see these applications come to fruition.

https://www.underconsideration.com/...go_for_transport_for_wales_by_smorgasbord.php

 

[trebor79]

Perhaps they could refurbish some of the HSTs that are coming off lease?

I'll get me coat.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

What action do you believe they should have taken?

Used the usual 3-car class 175 set on key workings if at all possible. I speak as a passenger not a rail industry insider so I was unaware of the stock problems they inherited.

This was my first Saturday football outing by rail for two months as I have been avoiding trains due to the knock-on effect of the Northern strike on TPE, EMT and TfW loadings. I even drove to Darlington, Alfreton and York, all of which have direct services from Liverpool. Looks like my use of the car will have to continue.

 

[PHILIPE]

Perhaps they could refurbish some of the HSTs that are coming off lease?

I'll get me coat.

They are spoken for. Scotrail

 

[pemma]

Passengers doing Chester-Stockport would also be more likely to use Northern over TfW on a normal day but on a strike day it'll be the other way around. It also could be the case that some from Mouldsworth/Delamere/Cuddington drove across to Helsby/Frodsham due to the lack of a Northern service to Manchester. Also Saturday was the first day of the Manchester Christmas Markets - when they are on you're lucky to get on a train to Manchester, never mind get on and get a seat.

It also seems part of the problem is now Wales & Borders is not Arriva they aren't still able to loan units off Northern in exchange for their managers acting as stand in guards on Northern services.

 

[Parallel]

As others have said, the reason why it was a 2 car 158 is likely because they have no other stock available. This was the scene at Newport a couple of Saturdays ago.

KeolisAmey have had a really difficult start to the franchise, and it will likely only get worse over the next 18 months. Just shows what a dire state Wales & Borders were allowed to get into, thanks to the DfT and the WG.

 

[Cardiff123]

TfW's only immediate hope is taking any off-lease Northern Pacers in January, if their political masters will allow them. Otherwise this will continue until at least next May when the 769s are expected in service.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Its a good job neither City nor United were at home, the derby taking place on Sunday.

 

[Starmill]

Used the usual 3-car class 175 set on key workings if at all possible.

Do you know that a 2 car 158 isn't the booked stock for the service you used?

It also seems part of the problem is now Wales & Borders is not Arriva they aren't still able to loan units off Northern in exchange for their managers acting as stand in guards on Northern services.

Indeed. The mitigation for cancelled Northern trains is no longer offered using TfW services to make extra stops either.

 

[Meole]

On what basis is TfW at fault for not increasing its capacity when Northern Rail strike in England, it appears that TfW despite its inherited problems is providing sufficient capacity for its primary customer base and the additional pressure at English stations is not their responsibility.

 

[DarloRich]

I was on a ram packed 150 from chester to warrington. It was replacing a failed 175.

 

[PHILIPE]

On what basis is TfW at fault for not increasing its capacity when Northern Rail strike in England, it appears that TfW despite its inherited problems is providing sufficient capacity for its primary customer base and the additional pressure at English stations is not their responsibility.

Agreed TFW were "landed in it" but where were they going to get it's capacity.

 

[Eccles1983]

On what basis is TfW at fault for not increasing its capacity when Northern Rail strike in England, it appears that TfW despite its inherited problems is providing sufficient capacity for its primary customer base and the additional pressure at English stations is not their responsibility.

Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn east and Chester are TfW stations. They are not served by any other operators on that line yet.

 

[6Gman]

Used the usual 3-car class 175 set on key workings if at all possible.

I imagine they probably do.

 

[scrapy]

Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn east and Chester are TfW stations. They are not served by any other operators on that line yet.

Well Chester has alternative services to Manchester operated by Northern that don't run on strike days. Whilst fewer people use these to Manchester a significant number use them to Stockport to change for Sheffield and beyond. These are all forced on TFW services on strike days. Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East don't cause the overcrowding it's the extra passengers for Warrington, Earlestown and Newton that do.

 

[Meole]

""https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...cellations-and-crowded-carriages-cause-chaos/"

Shropshire Star newspaper website, 27/12/18

 

[Eccles1983]

Well Chester has alternative services to Manchester operated by Northern that don't run on strike days. Whilst fewer people use these to Manchester a significant number use them to Stockport to change for Sheffield and beyond. These are all forced on TFW services on strike days. Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East don't cause the overcrowding it's the extra passengers for Warrington, Earlestown and Newton that do.

Bank Quay has no northern services to Manchester.

The point still remains. So the added pressure at 2 stations (which are better served by TPE) is not justification for the shoddy service for the other 4 stations that TfW is the main or sole provider .

The anti English sentiment really needs to stop. As put many times, without the English custom the line would be a basket case like many other of the Welsh routes.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On what basis is TfW at fault for not increasing its capacity when Northern Rail strike in England, it appears that TfW despite its inherited problems is providing sufficient capacity for its primary customer base and the additional pressure at English stations is not their responsibility.

TfW's franchise covers Chester-Warrington-Manchester every bit as much as the Cardiff Valleys.
The service in their part of England (covering about 200 route miles) is TfW's "primary customer base", for which it has responsibilities.

 

[Llanigraham]

Bank Quay has no northern services to Manchester.

The point still remains. So the added pressure at 2 stations (which are better served by TPE) is not justification for the shoddy service for the other 4 stations that TfW is the main or sole provider .

The anti English sentiment really needs to stop. As put many times, without the English custom the line would be a basket case like many other of the Welsh routes.

How about the anti-Welsh sentiment needs to stop?
You might actuaally find that many lines in Wales are NOT basket cases!

 

[Meole]

Agreed the West Midland service fails to serve its customers and the newspapers blame TfW who call at Telford for customers to get off and shop, its not TfW responsibility to ferry people to Birmingham.

 

[Dai Corner]

Agreed the West Midland service fails to serve its customers and the newspapers blame TfW who call at Telford for customers to get off and shop, its not TfW responsibility to ferry people to Birmingham.

Yes it is. Otherwise their trains would terminate at Shrewsbury and the service between there and Birmingham would be provided by another franchisee.

 

[Meole]

No you are wrong, the train goes to BIA for customers from Wales, international students from Aber etc, the service from Oakengates, Albrighton, Telford etc to Brum is down to WM.