Barcode ticket refused at Finsbury Park western "LU" entrance

[Watershed]

Yesterday I made a journey on Thameslink to Finsbury Park, using a (valid) barcode ticket.

I tried to exit the station from the newer western entrance, since this was most convenient for where I was going. However, when showing my ticket to the LU staff at that entrance (the barriers do not have barcode readers), I was told I could not use that exit because it was a "London Underground" one.

They had a handheld barcode scanning device, but since it couldn't read my ticket for some reason, they refused to let me through. They said that I had to use the "National Rail" barriers at the other end of the station. When I said this was not my fault that they didn't have the right equipment, they replied that it wasn't theirs either...

Obviously, this was hardly the end of the world (though the staff at the eastern "NR" entrance also took a while to let me through), but it was certainly an inconvenience. I also don't like using the eastern entrance to Finsbury Park as it feels rather unsafe with dodgy characters hanging around, and a constant smell of urine and weed. You don't get that at the western entrance.

Has anyone had a similar experience at Finsbury Park or another similar station served by both LU and NR services? I am minded to complain to TfL, as I find it totally unacceptable that they try to restrict which entrances passengers with valid tickets can use. I certainly wouldn't want my parents to be forced to use the dodgy eastern entrance.

 

[Turtle]

Yesterday I made a journey on Thameslink to Finsbury Park, using a (valid) barcode ticket.

I tried to exit the station from the newer western entrance, since this was most convenient for where I was going. However, when showing my ticket to the LU staff at that entrance (the barriers do not have barcode readers), I was told I could not use that exit because it was a "London Underground" one.

They had a handheld barcode scanning device, but since it couldn't read my ticket for some reason, they refused to let me through. They said that I had to use the "National Rail" barriers at the other end of the station. When I said this was not my fault that they didn't have the right equipment, they replied that it wasn't theirs either...

Obviously, this was hardly the end of the world (though the staff at the eastern "NR" entrance also took a while to let me through), but it was certainly an inconvenience. I also don't like using the eastern entrance to Finsbury Park as it feels rather unsafe with dodgy characters hanging around, and a constant smell of urine and weed. You don't get that at the western entrance.

Has anyone had a similar experience at Finsbury Park or another similar station served by both LU and NR services? I am minded to complain to TfL, as I find it totally unacceptable that they try to restrict which entrances passengers with valid tickets can use. I certainly wouldn't want my parents to be forced to use the dodgy eastern entrance.

Sounds a bit fishy. Someone making it up on the spot? Long time since I've used Finsbury Park and no doubt other posters will be along to offer advice.

 

[Netwrox]

I feel pretty sure I've used a barcode on my phone to get out there before.

There are 2 sets of gates in that hall. Are the ones closet to the underground corridor different from the NR ones maybe?

Not sure why the TFL staff wouldn't direct you to the other gates if so.

 

[Snow1964]

Not clear to me why Thameslink would sell you a bar code ticket rather than a credit card ticket, if they know the gates at you destination station (and the staff there too) cannot process them.

Sort of feels like right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing syndrome.

 

[43066]

Yesterday I made a journey on Thameslink to Finsbury Park, using a (valid) barcode ticket.

I tried to exit the station from the newer western entrance, since this was most convenient for where I was going. However, when showing my ticket to the LU staff at that entrance (the barriers do not have barcode readers), I was told I could not use that exit because it was a "London Underground" one.

They had a handheld barcode scanning device, but since it couldn't read my ticket for some reason, they refused to let me through. They said that I had to use the "National Rail" barriers at the other end of the station. When I said this was not my fault that they didn't have the right equipment, they replied that it wasn't theirs either...

Obviously, this was hardly the end of the world (though the staff at the eastern "NR" entrance also took a while to let me through), but it was certainly an inconvenience. I also don't like using the eastern entrance to Finsbury Park as it feels rather unsafe with dodgy characters hanging around, and a constant smell of urine and weed. You don't get that at the western entrance.

Has anyone had a similar experience at Finsbury Park or another similar station served by both LU and NR services? I am minded to complain to TfL, as I find it totally unacceptable that they try to restrict which entrances passengers with valid tickets can use. I certainly wouldn't want my parents to be forced to use the dodgy eastern entrance.

Yes, similar experience at Finsbury Park (and agreed the entrances are chalk and cheese). I imagine just because it’s classed as separate underground and NR stations for tickets and fares purposes. Farringdon station is a bit like this with separate LU and NR gatelines.

It’s unusual to be able to approach the exit from “inside” both LU and NR gatelines of course, usually you’d have to exit via one before encountering t’other, and I suppose makes very little difference to those using contactless or Oyster, so doesn’t generally present many issues.

Where does the signage from the TL platforms direct you?

 

[Edvid]

They had a handheld barcode scanning device, but since it couldn't read my ticket for some reason, they refused to let me through. They said that I had to use the "National Rail" barriers at the other end of the station. When I said this was not my fault that they didn't have the right equipment, they replied that it wasn't theirs either...

Don't know if this is relevant to your particular case, but I know from experience that display brightness on my phone (if set too low) can make it difficult for the ticket to be read by some scanners.

TfL's trial of handheld scanners is a regular topic in their TRU newsletter; if you have industry contacts in LU then (if you haven't already) it may be worth sending a message to them.

I've posted a few extracts from TRU on another thread (issue 154 example).

the staff at the eastern "NR" entrance also took a while to let me through

Were there no fixed barcode readers on that gateline either? Or did those readers not scan your ticket?

The former would surprise me as GTR do manage their portion of Finsbury Park - in contrast, Farringdon is managed by TfL (LU or otherwise) only - and have installed readers everywhere in their portfolio, or so they say.

 

[Hadders]

Something isn't right with the barriers at Finsbury Park.

I've not got an experience of e-tickets at Finsbury Park but I have had multiple issues when using KeyGo both at the barrier line and when using the validators at the top of the spiral staircase to tap in/out using KeyGo and then switching to Oyster PAYG on the Underground. I've had touch outs that clearly open the barrier not show up, touch-ins recorded as touch outs and touch outs recorded as touch ins.

 

[Watershed]

Sounds a bit fishy. Someone making it up on the spot? Long time since I've used Finsbury Park and no doubt other posters will be along to offer advice.

The member of staff was backed up by their "senior" looking colleague, so if it's a made-up policy they certainly didn't seem to be the only person who was following it.

I feel pretty sure I've used a barcode on my phone to get out there before. There are 2 sets of gates in that hall. Are the ones closet to the underground corridor different from the NR ones maybe? Not sure why the TFL staff wouldn't direct you to the other gates if so.

That's the eastern entrance you're thinking of. As you say, there are two gatelines there, one staffed by Thameslink and the other by LU. But I'm referring to the western entrance which is staffed by LU.

Only the eastern TL barriers have e-ticket readers, though at least the western LU staff also now have handheld readers (which didn't work in this instance).

Not clear to me why Thameslink would sell you a bar code ticket rather than a credit card ticket, if they know the gates at you destination station (and the staff there too) cannot process them.

Sort of feels like right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing syndrome.

Very much so! But regardless of how the ticket came to be sold, if it's a valid ticket I cannot see any grounds for TfL staff to be refusing passengers the ability to leave the station via particular entrances.

Yes, similar experience at Finsbury Park (and agreed the entrances are chalk and cheese). I imagine just because it’s classed as separate underground and NR stations for tickets and fares purposes. Farringdon station is a bit like this with separate LU and NR gatelines.

That's kind of what the staff were implying, but I can't see how this operational distinction should be of any relevance to me as a passenger.

It’s unusual to be able to approach the exit from “inside” both LU and NR gatelines of course, usually you’d have to exit via one before encountering t’other, and I suppose makes very little difference to those using contactless or Oyster, so doesn’t generally present many issues.

Where does the signage from the TL platforms direct you?

I can't recall what "way out" signage there is, but there is certainly nothing to indicate that NR barcode ticket holders must use a particular entrance.

Don't know if this is relevant to your particular case, but I know from experience that display brightness on my phone (if set too low) can make it difficult for the ticket to be read by some scanners.

Yes, I don't think that was the issue here, their reader just couldn't scan it for whatever reason. But a fair point.

TfL's trial of handheld scanners is a regular topic in their TRU newsletter; if you have industry contacts in LU then (if you haven't already) it may be worth sending a message to them.

I've posted a few extracts from TRU on another thread (issue 154 example).

Unfortunately I don't have any TfL contacts. I would certainly be raising it with them if I did.

Were there no fixed barcode readers on that gateline either? Or did those readers not scan your ticket?

There were, but my ticket was rejected. It took the member of TL barrier staff rather a long time to find the right app on their phone, open the scanning mode and then read the results... They seemed to be hung up on it saying that the ticket wasn't valid yesterday, as if that made a difference!

 

[Netwrox]

That's the eastern entrance you're thinking of.

No, I'm definitely talking about the western hall. There are 2 sets of gates separated by a booth (amongst other things) I was wondering whether the gates nearest the NR corridor had readers. I specifically went that way as I was wondering whether e tickets would be accepted given it appeared to be a TFL gateline. I may well be misremembering things. Maybe the gates were just open or somebody let me through.

If the only way to access NR was down to the LU platforms and up the stairs, I could see why they might not accept NR tickets. But very odd considering there's a direct NR connection.

Also I'm pretty sure Great Northern won't sell you an e ticket if you specify Finsbury Park as a destination. I was trying to leave short with a King's Cross ticket. But that suggests there's something odd about this station.

 

[Watershed]

No, I'm definitely talking about the western hall. There are 2 sets of gates separated by a booth (amongst other things) I was wondering whether the gates nearest the NR corridor had readers. I specifically went that way as I was wondering whether e tickets would be accepted given it appeared to be a TFL gateline. I may well be misremembering things. Maybe the gates were just open or somebody let me through.

Ah, sorry I see what you mean. No, none of those gates have barcode scanners. The ones nearest the "NR" corridor were configured as entry-only so I couldn't use them to exit.

If the only way to access NR was down to the LU platforms and up the stairs, I could see why they might not accept NR tickets. But very odd considering there's a direct NR connection.

Yes - and there's NR wayfinding signage at the western entrance, so it's clearly envisaged that you would use this allegedly "LU only" entrance for NR services.

Also I'm pretty sure Great Northern won't sell you an e ticket if you specify Finsbury Park as a destination. I was trying to leave short with a King's Cross ticket. But that suggests there's something odd about this station.

They will - they've enabled (most) of their flows to Finsbury Park as being e-ticketable.

 

[Jim the Jim]

Looking at it from the outside on Google Streetview, the western entrance is very much in Underground branding (darker sign shade, roundels, full name "Finsbury Park Station") whereas the eastern entrance is in more of a neutral style. Not that that is much use for anyone inside the station.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Just think yourself lucky. During Covid, anyone wanting to change from an up NR service to the tube had to leave via the Eastern exit, walk around for 10 minutes at street level, re-enter via the Western entrance, then along the passageway to whochever staircase led to the tube platform of your choice !!

 

[reb0118]

Sounds a bit fishy.....

Not only that, but seemingly it smelt a bit fishy too....

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, raise with TfL Customer Services.

It's ludicrous.

Two major transport providers 'co-operating' at major rail station in the UK's largest city .... and they can't sort this out between them.

If the 'rules' permit such crazy stuff, the rules should be changed, but more likely this is just another variation of the "TfL Empire is separate from national rail" game,ie. 'none of those strange tickets they use up there are to be used in our, wholly separate world'! Same as national rail tickets not being accepted at EL stations such as Tottenham Court Road.

Strangely enough, in the real world, if you just push through the barriers on either side, you get through and no-one seems to raise even an eyebrow.

 

[Sonic1234]

The lack of knowledge and "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us" attitude at TfL gatelines is the main reason I'd be opposed to TfL taking over any metro lines.

It makes you realise what a precious thing the ungated, unstaffed station is.

TfL customer services seem to know even less about National Rail ticketing, when I complained about being refused a perfectly valid break of journey they did apologise that my "special offer break-of-journey ticket type" was refused, whatever one of those is. To give them credit, they are efficient at sorting out any Oyster issues.

 

[talldave]

The lack of knowledge and "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us" attitude at TfL gatelines is the main reason I'd be opposed to TfL taking over any metro lines.

I'm with you on that one, although primarily because of their atrocious departure screens.

TfL customer services seem to know even less about National Rail ticketing, when I complained about being refused a perfectly valid break of journey they did apologise that my "special offer break-of-journey ticket type" was refused, whatever one of those is. To give them credit, they are efficient at sorting out any Oyster issues.

I'm not sure that's still the case after "del *.*-gate"!

 

[Watershed]

A complaint has gone in - let's see what they respond with. I'm not holding my breath for a sensible reply.

Just think yourself lucky. During Covid, anyone wanting to change from an up NR service to the tube had to leave via the Eastern exit, walk around for 10 minutes at street level, re-enter via the Western entrance, then along the passageway to whochever staircase led to the tube platform of your choice !!

Crazy when you think back at it...

Yes, raise with TfL Customer Services.

It's ludicrous.

Two major transport providers 'co-operating' at major rail station in the UK's largest city .... and they can't sort this out between them.

If the 'rules' permit such crazy stuff, the rules should be changed, but more likely this is just another variation of the "TfL Empire is separate from national rail" game,ie. 'none of those strange tickets they use up there are to be used in our, wholly separate world'! Same as national rail tickets not being accepted at EL stations such as Tottenham Court Road.

Strangely enough, in the real world, if you just push through the barriers on either side, you get through and no-one seems to raise even an eyebrow.

I cannot see any legal basis on which they could justify what they did. As you say, it just seems to be an example of TfL's contemptuous attitude to National Rail - treating it as separate and an inconvenience, rather than an integrated part of London's transport network.

The lack of knowledge and "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us" attitude at TfL gatelines is the main reason I'd be opposed to TfL taking over any metro lines.

It makes you realise what a precious thing the ungated, unstaffed station is.

TfL customer services seem to know even less about National Rail ticketing, when I complained about being refused a perfectly valid break of journey they did apologise that my "special offer break-of-journey ticket type" was refused, whatever one of those is. To give them credit, they are efficient at sorting out any Oyster issues.

Agreed!