Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson - yet another assistance failure

[Wolfie]

On BBC Breakfast now (will try to post an iPlayer link later). To summarise, systems are unfit for purpose, upgrades are running years late, once again the useless rail industry failed to provide assistance and she had to drag herself off a train. Hopefully TOC managers hang their heads in shame.

She also mentioned vast volumes of litigation by disabled people over such failures costing the TOCs millions....

Edited to add:
There is now a parallel story, which seems rather narrower than the Breakfast piece, on the BBC website:

Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to 'crawl off' LNER train

The former Paralympian was not met at the other end of her journey by a staff member.

www.bbc.co.uk

Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson was forced to "crawl off" a LNER train arriving at London's King's Cross.
Posting on X, Britain's most successful Paralympian said she had initially booked assistance to help her off the 19:15 train from Leeds but missed it and went on the 19:45, as she journeyed to Paris for the Paralympics.
She said she had a contract in place to be helped off but after waiting for 20 minutes no one arrived so she had to try to disembark herself.
LNER has said it is investigating what happened and said it was "sorry to understand there was an issue" at the station.
Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme she said: "There was no one there to meet me and I waited five minutes before putting anything on social media because you're meant to leave five minutes. After 16 minutes of waiting at King's Cross, there was no one in sight.
"There were a couple of cleaners but they're not insured or able to help me off. So I decided that I would crawl off the train.
"I'm going to Paris later today, I've got a few bags. I chucked them on the platform, I had to get out of my chair, sit on the floor by the door which is not pleasant and then crawl off."
Although she went on the later train, she "had a contract" to be met at the other end.
"Legally I am allowed to turn up and ask to get on a train.
"We were meant to have level boarding in the UK on 1 January 2020 under the Disability and Discrimination Act but government has kicked the can down the road.
"I can just about get off the train if I need to, but there are loads of people that can't.
"I can't really crawl but sit on the floor and drag my legs. There was no one around and I was very angry last night.
"If the train manager hadn't seen me crawling off, I would have had to pull the emergency cord and I would have delayed the train going north."
An LNER spokesperson said: "We are sorry to understand there has been an issue at London King’s Cross station on Monday evening.
"We are in the process of investigating this and are in contact with the customer directly."

 

[uglymonkey]

They did a programme a while ago to highlight this, a lot of people were saying they don't complain as to why this is newsworthy "This is just normal" - why are you reporting this?

 

[Wolfie]

They did a programme a while ago to highlight this, a lot of people were saying they don't complain as to why this is newsworthy "This is just normal" - why are you reporting this?

She, as a member of the House of Lords, is campaigning for change - it being normal is unacceptable.... and openly encouraging legal action against TOCs.

 

[dmncf]

"There were a couple of cleaners but they're not insured or able to help me off. So I decided that I would crawl off the train.

Seems strange that the cleaners apparently aren't trained to seek help in the event of finding a mobility impaired person who needs assistance to get off the train.

 

[Class83]

Seems strange that the cleaners apparently aren't trained to seek help in the event of finding a mobility impaired person who needs assistance to get off the train.

This did seem odd, that the guard hadn't noticed a prominent Paralympian and Member of the House of Lords (they should do this for anyone, but in her case it's fairly obvious who she is) and checked she got off at Kings Cross, or that as you say the cleaner couldn't go and find a member of platform staff to assist.

 

[The exile]

Yes - it’s not acceptable, but had she made anyone officially aware that she was travelling on a later train? If she had “turned up and asked” (as she is entitled to do) the TM would have known s/he would need to contact Kings Cross for disembarkment assistance. As it was, s/he would not necessarily been aware that the booked assistance would have been expecting to attend an earlier arrival.

 

[DMckduck]

Feel like this a massive own goal, I take it LNER has a guard on every train?

 

[OneOfThe48]

Yes - it’s not acceptable, but had she made anyone officially aware that she was travelling on a later train? If she had “turned up and asked” (as she is entitled to do) the TM would have known s/he would need to contact Kings Cross for disembarkment assistance. As it was, s/he would not necessarily been aware that the booked assistance would have been expecting to attend an earlier arrival.

If you read her tweets from the incident, you would see that she had spoken to staff multiple times (the train manager and another member of train staff twice) and had food delivered to her. So they were definitely aware she was on board and would need assistance getting off the train.

 

[Class83]

Yes - it’s not acceptable, but had she made anyone officially aware that she was travelling on a later train? If she had “turned up and asked” (as she is entitled to do) the TM would have known s/he would need to contact Kings Cross for disembarkment assistance. As it was, s/he would not necessarily been aware that the booked assistance would have been expecting to attend an earlier arrival.

Is it not standard procedure for Guards to confirm with passengers in the wheelchair space, where they are alighting and if they have booked assistance or if it needs arranging when checking tickets? Or indeed notice that she didn't get off the train in London?

 

[azOOOOOma]

Many trains were full and standing yesterday evening. It’s possible that the TM couldn’t do ticket checks.

 

[Wolfie]

If you read her tweets from the incident, you would see that she had spoken to staff multiple times (the train manager and another member of train staff twice) and had food delivered to her. So they were definitely aware she was on board and would need assistance getting off the train.

Frankly if a member of the legislature can regularly be treated like that without sign of any obvious improvement what the heck hope is there for "ordinary people"?

 

[MrJeeves]

This did seem odd, that the guard hadn't noticed a prominent Paralympian and Member of the House of Lords (they should do this for anyone, but in her case it's fairly obvious who she is)

I don't think I would recognise her or most paralympians or members of the HoL in public! "Fairly obvious" is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[InTheEastMids]

"This is just normal" - why are you reporting this?

Exactly, people find things unacceptable today that previously they were forced, or were willing to accept.
It was once normal to dump human waste straight onto the line from carriages that collapsed like a house of cards in a collision.

Feel like this a massive own goal, I take it LNER has a guard on every train?

Obvious question is why it was not the responsibility of the Train Manager to ensure all passengers have left the train at its terminus. This seems like a fairly basic piece of "train management" to me.

Many trains were full and standing yesterday evening. It’s possible that the TM couldn’t do ticket checks.

I bet it wasn't full and standing 10 minutes after arriving at Kings X though.

Social media doesn't replace other lines of communication but can be pretty helpful to shame an organisation into action. Not in this case though.

 

[DMckduck]

Many trains were full and standing yesterday evening. It’s possible that the TM couldn’t do ticket checks.

There is that, but you'd like to think she would have been noticed getting on the train. Which is where the issue lies in my opinion, unless there was no assistance for at leeds.

Sounds like a breakdown in communication to me..

 

[Magdalia]

I heard the interview with Tanni Grey-Thompson on Today on Radio 4. It was just before the 0800 news.

Tanni Grey-Thompson had intended to get the 1915 Leeds-Kings Cross but was on the 1945 instead. She mentioned that the cleaners saw her but they are not insured to help. The first assistance she got from LNER was from the train manager for the 2300 departure. Checking RTT this was the same platform as the 1945 arrival with both 91110 on MarkIVs.

Does the train manager of the arriving train have no responsibility to check that there are no passengers needing assistance? If not, why not?

Tanni Grey Thompson also spoke about the Disability Discrimination Act 2020 deadline and the need for level boarding, including a mention for Greater Anglia's new trains. But there was no mention of level boarding being as much about platforms and step free access as it is about trains.

Tanni Grey Thompson also made the point that it is difficult for people with disabilities to work if they are unable to make commuting journeys independently.

 

[Towers]

The first question here would be does LNER use an app to log assisted passengers. Other TOCs do, and this means that staff have a live record of all assistance requests. It has its limitations, but in the event of a passenger travelling on a train other than their original booking, this can be reflected within the app. Guards can check at the start of each journey and station teams throughout the day, so that everyone should be fully informed.

The mention of the cleaners is odd, I would have thought they may well be equipped with radios or at least have a reasonably swift means of making contact with somebody able to help?

…

Does the train manager of the arriving train have no responsibility to check that there are no passengers needing assistance? If not, why not?

…

Unlikely; the guard would be expected to maintain a knowlegde of any assisted passengers on board throughout the journey, once the train lands in KGX it’ll be doors open and bail out I should think. I don’t know of any termini where guards are expected to check trains between journeys, although at some locations they may be responsible for checking a train is clear before they take it somewhere as empty stock.

 

[Dave W]

I expect her taking the later train is what has caused this - but that's frankly no excuse to leaving someone in this position.

She's been seen to on the train so between the on board team they know a person in a wheelchair is aboard. Surely it behoves one or more of them to check these people are safely detrained before disappearing? Surely even verifying whether or not they're expecting assistance at the station they're leaving the train at would be part of their role in greeting her?

Feels like a bit of a breakdown in operating procedure here rather than specific neglect of a person in a wheelchair - but as I said, that's not really an excuse.

 

[12LDA28C]

Obvious question is why it was not the responsibility of the Train Manager to ensure all passengers have left the train at its terminus. This seems like a fairly basic piece of "train management" to me.

Is this actually part of a Train Manager's responsibilities at any TOC? Seems unlikely to me. I'd imagine either the TM was due to either book off, or have their break before working their next train. Not that I'm defending or excusing what happened.

 

[gg1]

This did seem odd, that the guard hadn't noticed a prominent Paralympian and Member of the House of Lords (they should do this for anyone, but in her case it's fairly obvious who she is) and checked she got off at Kings Cross, or that as you say the cleaner couldn't go and find a member of platform staff to assist.

What an utterly bizarre comment, I certainly wouldn't have recognised her, just as I wouldn't recognise more than a handful of members of the House of Lords.

As you say it shouldn't make the slightest difference who she was though, the way she was treated was inexcusable.

 

[John R]

She had already come to the on board train crew's attention during the journey for a separate reason, with at least two attending to her. So I do think it is odd that the train crew just left at Kings Cross without ensuring that she was able to leave the train. And if the rail industry can't provide assistance at a major London terminal after LNER had been contacted about her situation then it's a pretty sorry state of affairs.

One subject being hotly discussed on X this morning by some in the industry is that the CAF order doesn't include level boarding and CAF is coming under a lot of stick for putting the price up to a point whereby the cost was unattractive/unaffordable. In my mind, it's not unreasonable for a manufacturer to say, if you want us to substantially redesign our trains for a relatively small order, you'll have to pay for it. If not, we're not interested in the business. Ultimately, the time to have mandated level boarding in the train procurement cycle was with the IETs. That ship sailed a decade ago unfortunately.

 

[Harpo]

If LNER can’t make completely ‘in-house’ assisted travel work reliably, somethings badly broken.

It would be a simple early win for GBR to have a national assisted travel co-ordinater, on shift, to ensure this doesn’t get repeated.

That comes at a cost but hopefully less than lots of very senior people going ‘Oh! S**t! React’ everytime these shockers reach the media.

 

[TUC]

This should not take complicated further systems introducing in order to fix. It just needs common sense and responsiveness. It appears from the X/Twitter feed that the LNER team there contacted Kings Cross to advise of the situation. That should have resulted in a staff member to attend or, if not immediately available, in a message being passed on to the passenger to reassure that they are aware of her and will attend as soon as possible.

If LNER can’t make completely ‘in-house’ assisted travel work reliably, somethings badly broken.

It would be a simple early win for GBR to have a national assisted travel co-ordinater, on shift, to ensure this doesn’t get repeated.

That comes at a cost but hopefully less than lots of very senior people going ‘Oh! S**t! React’ everytime these shockers reach the media.

The last thing I would trust to be reliable and responsive is a national system detached from the on-train/station staff.

 

[rg177]

The Passenger Assist system which currently exists (powered by Transreport) is perfectly capable of being used to log last-minute changes and bookings - which is what I've witnessed countless times when dealing with it was part of my job.

When it's used properly - there can be accountability as staff will be assigned at each stage so it's easy to trace who was responsible for what. Issue is that the use of this feature is very inconsistent - many don't bother.

 

[43096]

Unlikely; the guard would be expected to maintain a knowlegde of any assisted passengers on board throughout the journey, once the train lands in KGX it’ll be doors open and bail out I should think. I don’t know of any termini where guards are expected to check trains between journeys, although at some locations they may be responsible for checking a train is clear before they take it somewhere as empty stock.

Ah yes, the railway’s default attitude to its customers - “the not my job, guv” mentality. It’s basic decency to make sure a wheelchair user gets off the train.

 

[class 9]

Is this actually part of a Train Manager's responsibilities at any TOC? Seems unlikely to me. I'd imagine either the TM was due to either book off, or have their break before working their next train. Not that I'm defending or excusing what happened.

On Cross Country the Driver checks the train, this is before it goes to the depot.

 

[TUC]

The Passenger Assist system which currently exists (powered by Transreport) is perfectly capable of being used to log last-minute changes and bookings - which is what I've witnessed countless times when dealing with it was part of my job.

When it's used properly - there can be accountability as staff will be assigned at each stage so it's easy to trace who was responsible for what. Issue is that the use of this feature is very inconsistent - many don't bother.

I agree, and in saying that a national system would not be helpful, I did not mean Passenger Assist which generally works well. I meant the concept of having staff/oversight detached from wider train or station operations would not be good.

 

[Magdalia]

This has happened to Tanni Grey-Thompson before, though it was a long time ago.

Disabled woman: no assistance available from East Coast

Baroness Grey-Thompson has called for better public transport services for disabled people after revealing she had to crawl off a train in London. The Paralympian gold medallist, a regular commuter from north-east England, said she was left stranded at King's Cross station at midnight. The...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[InTheEastMids]

Feels like a bit of a breakdown in operating procedure here rather than specific neglect of a person in a wheelchair - but as I said, that's not really an excuse.

Not really much of a process if an entirely foreseeable issue (person catches different train) causes it to fall over this badly.

Terrible PR response from LNER this morning - "We are sorry to understand there has been an issue at London King’s Cross station on Monday evening...". Obviously we should expect it to have been lawyered but the basic point is that as soon as you accept that a wheelchair user was not supported to leave the train, then it's obvious that LNER have messed up, and the language of the PR suggests that blaming the customer is still seen as an option for them.

Is this actually part of a Train Manager's responsibilities at any TOC? Seems unlikely to me.

That's my point. Ensuring passengers can and do leave at the terminus is a fairly obvious piece of transport management, so I think it's entirely legitimate to wonder about why they are not responsible for doing this. Apply the same logic to Ryanair and the cabin crew would be jogging across the tarmac before most of the passengers had undone their seatbelts!

Ultimately, the time to have mandated level boarding in the train procurement cycle was with the IETs. That ship sailed a decade ago unfortunately.

I doubt level boarding was seen as compatible with having a large diesel engine under about 1/2 the carriages, and I expect nobody wanted to surrender passenger space to having power cars or a 755-style arrangement. However my own argument is seems undone by all the high-floor EMU procured in the last 10 or so years, which could have been low floor - i.e. where low floor has become pretty straightforward, people chose not to do it.

So perhaps a more basic issue is that, as a country and across our infrastructure, we tend to grudgingly spend a bit of money to try retrofit accessiblity for wheelchair users, the elderly and people with young children, rather than be braver and design accessibility and inclusivity into our world.

 

[Harpo]

The last thing I would trust to be reliable and responsive is a national system detached from the on-train/station staff.

Assisted travellers don’t seem to have any reliability or responsiveness in the current set-up just a system that appears to move the responsibility around.

Anything that creates a single point of contact (for staff and customers) and has responsibility for making sure that all who need help actually get it has to be better than where we are now?

 

[Brush 4]

Bizarre that some haven't heard of her. She has been on The One Show often, chat shows like J.Ross G.Norton and others over the years. Obviously sports programmes as well. It could be that it is just the name that is not familiar so, here she is......

This kind of thing also happens at airports, with people left on an empty plane.