Bedford EMR Off Peak Confusion

[Enjoy12481632]

Hello,

I have a few questions about the following journey:

Origin Station:
Bedford (Main)

Destination:
London Aldgate - via EMR to St Pancras Intl and then tube.

Days:
Monday-Friday

Times:
12.10 train to St Pancras from Bedford
17.47 train from St Pancras to Bedford

Railcard:
16-25 Railcard

Below shows the Off-Peak ticketing from EMR's website:

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Train Tickets | EMR

Happy to catch the train when it’s a little quieter? Save money with Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak train tickets.

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

However, if I try to buy a ticket for the specific timings, I am suggested an off-peak day return, with the following restrictions: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/c4/



These two pieces of advice are severely confusing me.

I do not know how to edit this post, but if anyone would be able to shed any light on this topic I would be greatly appreciative.

Also, I know it is not in the spirit of the original post, but if you could also advise on a cheaper ticket than this - I would also be appreciative.

 

[Snow1964]

If you look at bottom of the Off peak yellow box, says, Fridays all day from 08:47

Appears bottom selection is a Friday, so off-peak is ok

 

[Enjoy12481632]

If you look at bottom of the Off peak yellow box, says, Fridays all day from 08:47

Appears bottom selection is a Friday, so off-peak is ok

Apologies, if I do on Tuesday for example I receive the same suggestion of an off-peak ticket. It has the off-peak day return suggested at the bottom, but the return ticket is an off-peak day single due to the discounted price of the 12.10.

 

[4COR]

I'm not sure I understand what the question is - is it "why do I get offered two singles (Advance and off-peak) on Tues, but a return on Fri?" (If so, isn't it because the former is cheaper by 10p on the Tues, but the advance fare at £5.05 is not available on Fri - only £5.90 so you get offered the cheaper return?)

 

[Enjoy12481632]

I'm not sure I understand what the question is - is it "why do I get offered two singles (Advance and off-peak) on Tues, but a return on Fri?" (If so, isn't it because the former is cheaper by 10p on the Tues, but the advance fare at £5.05 is not available on Fri - only £5.90 so you get offered the cheaper return?)

My question is:
The EMR advice for return tickets, travelling out of London, is off peak is only valid from 18:47.

In the above screenshot, I am being offered an off peak return from 17:17.

These seem to not be compatible with one another.

 

[tspaul26]

Hello,

I have a few questions about the following journey:

Origin Station:
Bedford (Main)

Destination:
London Aldgate - via EMR to St Pancras Intl and then tube.

Days:
Monday-Friday

Times:
12.10 train to St Pancras from Bedford
17.47 train from St Pancras to Bedford

Railcard:
16-25 Railcard

Below shows the Off-Peak ticketing from EMR's website:

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Train Tickets | EMR

Happy to catch the train when it’s a little quieter? Save money with Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak train tickets.

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

View attachment 157049

However, if I try to buy a ticket for the specific timings, I am suggested an off-peak day return, with the following restrictions: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/c4/
View attachment 157050


These two pieces of advice are severely confusing me.

I do not know how to edit this post, but if anyone would be able to shed any light on this topic I would be greatly appreciative.

Also, I know it is not in the spirit of the original post, but if you could also advise on a cheaper ticket than this - I would also be appreciative.

It might help if you asked an actual question.

My question is:
The EMR advice for return tickets, travelling out of London, is off peak is only valid from 18:47.

In the above screenshot, I am being offered an off peak return from 17:17.

These seem to not be compatible with one another.

Ignore the EMR website. It is a simplified summary and not universally applicable.

The time restrictions depend on the specific off peak fare in question. For your journey, restriction code C4 has no afternoon time restrictions returning from St Pancras.

 

[Vexed]

Blanket statements like the photo from EMR's website are a bad idea as this is demonstrating! The ticketing system is complex and off peak/peak times are determined by the ticket you hold and services you're on, not just the servies as EMR implies.

Flexible Off-Peak and Anytime tickets from Bedform to St Pancras are set by Thameslink, so what EMR says about them has no bearing. These Thameslink-set fares are valid on both TL and EMR services.

The off-peak day return EMR's website is suggesting you buy has restriction code C4 which has no restrictions for the evening peak for travel from St Pancras - Bedford. You can take any return train - the image you attached of advice from EMR's website is incorrect for this specific journey.

 

[4COR]

Restriction C4 has no evening restriction from St Pancras Mon-Fri, only a restriction in the morning peak. (EDIT: Beaten to it above!)

Regardless, if you are sold a ticket with an itinerary from an accredited retailer, it is a valid ticket on the itinerary it is sold with.

 

[Enjoy12481632]

Restriction C4 has no evening restriction from St Pancras Mon-Fri, only a restriction in the morning peak. (EDIT: Beaten to it above!)

Regardless, if you are sold a ticket with an itinerary from an accredited retailer, it is a valid ticket on the itinerary it is sold with.

So the train operator on the tannoy mentioned off-peak tickets were not valid on the train. Does this mean they were incorrect? I never had my ticket checked so could not speak to an EMR represenative.

 

[tspaul26]

So the train operator on the tannoy mentioned off-peak tickets were not valid on the train. Does this mean they were incorrect? I never had my ticket checked so could not speak to an EMR represenative.

Some off peak tickets will be valid; others won’t be. It depends on the time restrictions attached to the specific off peak fare.

 

[4COR]

So the train operator on the tannoy mentioned off-peak tickets were not valid on the train. Does this mean they were incorrect? I never had my ticket checked so could not speak to an EMR representative.

Similar happens at Paddington as well - blanket generalisations like this are not always correct - it depends on the restriction code.

 

[Watershed]

So the train operator on the tannoy mentioned off-peak tickets were not valid on the train. Does this mean they were incorrect? I never had my ticket checked so could not speak to an EMR represenative.

The announcement was wrong if it made a blanket statement that all Off-Peak tickets were invalid on that train. That's because trains aren't generically peak or off-peak - the applicable restrictions depend on the ticket you hold.

The announcement was correct in respect of passengers holding an Off-Peak ticket from London to most stations north of Bedford - as those fares are generally priced by EMR, who have evening peak restrictions out of St Pancras on their Off-Peak fares.

However, Thameslink price the fares as far north as Bedford and there aren't any evening peak restrictions on their Off-Peak fares (NB there are on their Super Off-Peak fares). So any passengers to Luton or Bedford were perfectly entitled to travel on that train with Off-Peak (but not Super Off-Peak) tickets from London.

Basically - announcements can be wrong or misleading; you should instead rely on the ticket you're offered by journey planners. Whichever ticket they offer you is contractually valid on the train you select.

 

[Snow1964]

Similar happens at Paddington as well - blanket generalisations like this are not always correct - it depends on the restriction code.

And this is part of the reason the public finds it so complicated (as does the message on the railway website) where Off peak is defined by a ticket type, rather than a time on a clock

 

[Haywain]

there aren't any evening peak restrictions on their Off-Peak fares

There are actually some CDR fares that have an LS code, which does have an evening peak restriction. I don't think these affect Bedford though.