Bee Network - list of franchises awarded (Tranche 3 included)

[Mollman]

Well that makes sense as there are so many other changes happening at once. I'm a long way from Manchester now and am trying to keep up with what's happening - it seems that GM-wide route numbering appears to be coming back, so no duplication of numbers (apart from 18?). I assume TfGM must be taking on more staff as they, rather than the operators, will be doing the scheduling.

The Wigan network was only renumbered in April so it might be a while before the 18 situation is resolved.

 

[Andyh82]

Well that makes sense as there are so many other changes happening at once. I'm a long way from Manchester now and am trying to keep up with what's happening - it seems that GM-wide route numbering appears to be coming back, so no duplication of numbers (apart from 18?). I assume TfGM must be taking on more staff as they, rather than the operators, will be doing the scheduling.

There will also be two number 74s and two 344s

If I was to guess i'd say the Hyde circular 344 could be renumbered 340 and the Stagecoach 74 could be renumbered 77. The currently Arriva 18 could become the 16

 

[geoffk]

My former boss at GMPTE (now retired) isn't sure whether TfGM will get service planners with local knowledge transferred from the operators, and if not where such staff will come from to handle the increased workload. Also the interface between vehicle schedule/timetabling (TfGM responsibility) and crew duty scheduling (operator responsibility) could prove awkward in practice, particularly when extra costs have to be incurred by either party to make them workable. There may well be increased public subsidy since many withdrawn commercial services haven't (yet) been replaced. Their removal can no longer be blamed on the operator, meaning increased political pressure to maintain unviable services at public expense.

There must have been liaison between TfGM and Transport for London at political level to help those in Manchester get to grips with all the issues - let's hope there was also contact on the operational side.

 

[Leedsbusman]

My former boss at GMPTE (now retired) isn't sure whether TfGM will get service planners with local knowledge transferred from the operators, and if not where such staff will come from to handle the increased workload. Also the interface between vehicle schedule/timetabling (TfGM responsibility) and crew duty scheduling (operator responsibility) could prove awkward in practice, particularly when extra costs have to be incurred by either party to make them workable. There may well be increased public subsidy since many withdrawn commercial services haven't (yet) been replaced. Their removal can no longer be blamed on the operator, meaning increased political pressure to maintain unviable services at public expense.

There must have been liaison between TfGM and Transport for London at political level to help those in Manchester get to grips with all the issues - let's hope there was also contact on the operational side.

Vehicle scheduling, timetabling and crew duty scheduling are all the responsibility of the operator. Only network design and overall spec is TfGM.

 

[geoffk]

Vehicle scheduling, timetabling and crew duty scheduling are all the responsibility of the operator. Only network design and overall spec is TfGM.

That's a better solution - so TfGM would specify route, frequency at different times of day, first and last buses.

 

[47550]

Can anyone confirm where Go NW will operate the Tameside A small franchise from. As I understand it large franchise garages (Wigan and Bolton) cannot be used to operate small franchises. In any case it's a bit of a schlep from Bolton to Ashton / Hyde. PVR is 12 I think currently, so would require around 15 vehicle allocation.

Can anyone confirm where Go NW will operate the Tameside A small franchise from. As I understand it large franchise garages (Wigan and Bolton) cannot be used to operate small franchises. In any case it's a bit of a schlep from Bolton to Ashton / Hyde. PVR is 12 I think currently, so would require around 15 vehicle allocation.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Can anyone confirm where Go NW will operate the Tameside A small franchise from. As I understand it large franchise garages (Wigan and Bolton) cannot be used to operate small franchises. In any case it's a bit of a schlep from Bolton to Ashton / Hyde. PVR is 12 I think currently, so would require around 15 vehicle allocation.

In short, no. It'll be a while before a place is sorted.

 

[Andyh82]

Can anyone confirm where Go NW will operate the Tameside A small franchise from. As I understand it large franchise garages (Wigan and Bolton) cannot be used to operate small franchises. In any case it's a bit of a schlep from Bolton to Ashton / Hyde. PVR is 12 I think currently, so would require around 15 vehicle allocation.

Could they operate them from Heywood?

 

[47550]

I’d forgotten about Heywood !

 

[mayneway]

Could they operate them from Heywood?

Heywood would seem like the ideal solution as it’s literally next to the motorway BUT I’m told by my colleagues who were seconded to Heywood before GNW lost QS that Heywood simply doesn’t have the space to run any more buses out of. Apparently they have also gone for for some Tranche 3 school packages so the likely hood is they will have to source somewhere else to run from.

Are you sure the PVR will be 15? The 343 and 356 doesn’t currently require 15 buses, more like 5 or 6?

 

[47550]

Heywood would seem like the ideal solution as it’s literally next to the motorway BUT I’m told by my colleagues who were seconded to Heywood before GNW lost QS that Heywood simply doesn’t have the space to run any more buses out of. Apparently they have also gone for for some Tranche 3 school packages so the likely hood is they will have to source somewhere else to run from.

Are you sure the PVR will be 15? The 343 and 356 doesn’t currently require 15 buses, more like 5 or 6?

I thought it was the Tameside A small franchise that they won - which (according to post #4 on this board) is the following services

Tameside A Small

335 339 341 342 345 387 396

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Before the Bee Network came into existence, were there any restrictions on the bus depot sizes used by the bus operators?

 

[Tim33160]

I thought it was the Tameside A small franchise that they won - which (according to post #4 on this board) is the following services

Tameside A Small

335 339 341 342 345 387 396

GNW won Tameside B: from the FoI release of routes under Tranche Three and contract / depot allocations
T3 Contract Awards - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Greater Manchester
www.whatdotheyknow.com Long list: Download original attachment

335	335	Ashton - Denton - Dane Bank	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
339	339	Ashton-under-Lyne - Waterloo circular	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
341	341	Broadbottom - Hattersley - Hyde	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
342/344	342/344	Hyde - Gee Cross Circulars	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
345	345	Ashton - Denton Circular	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
387	387	Hyde - Stalybridge - Ashton	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
396	396	Middleton - Chadderton - Ashton	Tameside A Small	Diamond	Eccles
343	343	Oldham - Lees - Stalybridge - Hyde	Tameside B Small	Go North West	not yet confirmed
356	356	Oldham - Denshaw - Uppermill - Ashton	Tameside B Small	Go North West	not yet confirmed

These routes are as were running at December 2021 when the invitations to tender were circulated - hence the inclusion of the former Little Gem routes

 

[47550]

The Tfgm website says it is the other way round !!

Operators confirmed to run remaining Bee Network bus services

news.tfgm.com

Breakdown of contract awards:

• Hyde Road large franchise – Metroline
• Sharston large franchise – Metroline
• Wythenshawe large franchise – Metroline
• Stockport large franchise – Stagecoach
• Tameside large franchise – Metroline
• Tameside A small franchise – Go North West
• Tameside B small franchise – Diamond
• Trafford small franchise – Diamond
• Stockport small franchise – Diamond

 

[baza585]

The Tfgm website says it is the other way round !!

Operators confirmed to run remaining Bee Network bus services

news.tfgm.com

Breakdown of contract awards:

• Hyde Road large franchise – Metroline
• Sharston large franchise – Metroline
• Wythenshawe large franchise – Metroline
• Stockport large franchise – Stagecoach
• Tameside large franchise – Metroline
• Tameside A small franchise – Go North West
• Tameside B small franchise – Diamond
• Trafford small franchise – Diamond
• Stockport small franchise – Diamond

Priceless. Just about sums TfGM up...

 

[Citibus]

The Rotala corporate website is the same as the TfGM website and states that Diamond won Tameside B https://www.rotala.uk/news/greater-manchester-combined-authority-awards-tranche-3-bus-contracts.html

Following today's announcement by Transport for Greater Manchester that Greater Manchester Combined Authority has awarded Tranche 3 contracts, Diamond Bus North West are pleased to announce that it has been selected to operate 3 Small Franchises in the third tranche of franchise awards.


Rotala subsidiary, Diamond Bus North West, has been awarded three 5-year contracts by Greater Manchester Combined Authority to operate the Tameside B, Stockport and Trafford Small Franchises in the Tranche 3 area.


The three contracts involve the operation of 16 local bus services in the Tameside, Stockport and Trafford areas, requiring approximately 50 colleagues and 25 buses.


The services will operate from Diamond's existing depot in Eccles.

I think a lot of the information in that the FOI request that has been widely shared is wrong with several inaccuracies in routes and franchise wins.

 

[Leyland Bus]

GNW have Tameside A, the larger of the two.

 

[mayneway]

GNW have Tameside A, the larger of the two.

I thought that was the case. So the FOI request is wrong. Typical TFGM!!

The Tfgm website says it is the other way round !!

Operators confirmed to run remaining Bee Network bus services

news.tfgm.com

Breakdown of contract awards:

• Hyde Road large franchise – Metroline
• Sharston large franchise – Metroline
• Wythenshawe large franchise – Metroline
• Stockport large franchise – Stagecoach
• Tameside large franchise – Metroline
• Tameside A small franchise – Go North West
• Tameside B small franchise – Diamond
• Trafford small franchise – Diamond
• Stockport small franchise – Diamond

Apologies I’ve assumed the details on the FOI request answered by TFGM was gospel and it seems they have got it wrong!

I would imagine they will look at something closer to Tameside which would also house the buses for the Oldham/Tameside schools they already operate!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I thought that was the case. So the FOI request is wrong. Typical TFGM!!

Apologies I’ve assumed the details on the FOI request answered by TFGM was gospel and it seems they have got it wrong!

But is it not the case that once the Bee Network was up and running, we would all see how matters concerning information were going to improve.

 

[mayneway]

But is it not the case that once the Bee Network was up and running, we would all see how matters concerning information were going to improve.

If they can’t get basic information right concerning who’s operating which contracts it’s not looking good for improvements.

 

[GusB]

We'll draw this thread to a close now as the "list of franchises awarded" has already been posted and there's too much duplication.

For ongoing discussion about Bee Network routes and services, please use this thread:

Bee Network Service/Route Discussion

The previous Bee Network thread seems to have been closed, so I’ve had to create this new one TfGM have announced various frequency increases on the services that will join the Bee Network in Phase 2 from 24th March https://tfgm.com/the-bee-network/bus-service-changes Improvements are being...

www.railforums.co.uk

If anyone wants to discuss the buses that run on those routes, please use this one:

TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

For those who maybe interested, 40764 is the latest repaint into Bee Network yellow at BN depot, with 40796 the next one in. Repaints are also starting at outside contractors from this week too.

www.railforums.co.uk

If anything crops up that does not appear to fit into either category, please feel free to start a new thread.