Been given a prosecution notice but inspector told me I was fine...

[huntsman34]

Hi all,

Hoping someone can advise me as this situation is very confusing.

I was travelling to work on a Monday morning and I had left my season ticket in my other coat. The season ticket covered the journey and was still valid, I just didn't have it on me.
I know this counts as a possible penalty, so I spoke to the staff at the excess fares counter and everything was fine. It was a nice, cordial conversation where the inspector checked my details on his tablet, saw that I had a ticket (just not on me) and that I had no record of ever forgetting before.
He said that Southeastern generally allow you to forget your ticket twice a year and then issued me a slip from his machine which said that the amount to pay was NIL.

Now... I didn't read or retain this slip as I took the guy at his word, I can't even remember what I did with it.
This looks to be a large error on my part.

I get home on the Friday and I have a letter informing me about my case being provisionally authorised for prosecution, but it has the wrong date on it (the letter says the event was on the Tuesday and not the Monday)... I've responded to their letter with one of my own and have a print out of all of my tickets (including the season ticket which would have covered the journey) which I also enclosed.

I am very confused as to why I am being chased and possibly prosecuted when the inspector indicated that everything was fine.

Are there any RPIs on here that can help?

Many thanks

 

[huntsman34]

Just to add to this that the letter looks very dodgy.

1) It's on cheap paper where the footer is half cut off.
2) The signature has no name attached, is blatantly scanned from a different document (different background colour) and says 'On behalf of the prosecutions manager." Surely it should give a name?
3) Has no details of the incident. Literally just says "On date XX XXX XXXX a person giving the above name and address was questioned by a member of rail staff with regard to an alleged incident on Southeastern Railway. The matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution"
Surely it should at least tell me the thing about which I will be prosecuted??
4) It is asking for all sorts of irrelevant data (Surname, Forename, Date of Birth, Address, postcode, Telephone Number, Occupation, NI Number). The occupation and NI Number would be useful details for fraud.
5) It starts with "Dear Mr X X XXXXX" with the Dear misaligned with the title and name... not to mention that full name and title in a dear declaration is extremely strange.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did you tell anybody about it? Could it be a wind-up?

Could you perhaps telephone the TOC and speak to them about it to see if it is genuine?

 

[huntsman34]

I didn't tell anyone about it, pretty much forgot about it until I got the letter.

I called the TOC about it, but customer services tell me there is no way to talk to the prosecutions people outside of mail, which is irritating. They couldn't tell me if it is genuine.

I've replied with all of the pertinent data (I didn't give my occupation or NI number) along with printouts of my ticket purchases, etc.

I'm just planning now for all eventualities as I work in an industry where a criminal record is an instant chuck out. I could never work in my field again.
I find it very strange that I got a letter of intended prosecution for the wrong date rather than a penalty fare.
I would have paid the penalty fare straight away if the option had been given as it avoids aggro... but the inspector told me to not worry about it.

This is very confusing and worrying to me so I need to get my ducks in a row

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is very odd. A forgotten season ticket is surely a totally correct case for a PF - a genuine mistake. Then if the TOC allowed leniency for one case, you'd simply pay, appeal it and succeed, getting your money back.

(This is one reason I like barriers - they prevent you from being able to make this kind of error by accident)

If you were to be prosecuted, though, I'd expect it to be Byelaw rather than RoRA for this kind of thing, which does not mean a criminal record.

 

[gray1404]

I never do understand why they would want to know ones DOB, NI Number and Occupation. That really is none of their business.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Rather than a wind up, from the description given, it looks more like a Phishing attack.

 

[gray1404]

Perhaps the OP would like to scan a copy of the letter, edit out their name and address and then we can have a look at it on here.

 

[gray1404]

If a customer forgets their season ticket 2 times a year they can have a ticket refunded without an administration fee for the refund. If the customer only discovers the forgotten ticket upon ticket inspection then if they are issued with a Plenty Fare (it is NOT a fine!) for £20 or twice the single fare, zero payment is taken at the time, but the entire thing should be cancelled when the customer sends in a copy of their season ticket.

It should like it pay have been that you needed to send in a copy of your season ticket from the train companies point of view. However, you were left under the impression from their staff member that he had verified your details on the system so didn't need to. I guess the inspector at the time was just checking that the person you were claiming to be did have a season ticket so he could justify taking zero payment, but that doesn't automatically mean you don't need to send a copy. Nevertheless, if any actions were required on your part it should have been made clear to you at the time (plus you should have read the paperwork you were given).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rather than a wind up, from the description given, it looks more like a Phishing attack.

A slightly bizarre one, though - anyone would remember if they were caught for not having a ticket and would smell a rat if they were not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps the OP would like to scan a copy of the letter, edit out their name and address and then we can have a look at it on here.

In these slightly bizarre circumstances that seems sensible.

 

[gray1404]

I take your point though, they were stopped by an inspector so there was a chance of receiving a letter.

 

[huntsman34]

Not easy to make out but the signature, if you can call it that, has a different background colour to the rest of the letter, indicating (to me) a scan from another document.

 

[huntsman34]

If a customer forgets their season ticket 2 times a year they can have a ticket refunded without an administration fee for the refund. If the customer only discovers the forgotten ticket upon ticket inspection then if they are issued with a Plenty Fare (it is NOT a fine!) for £20 or twice the single fare, zero payment is taken at the time, but the entire thing should be cancelled when the customer sends in a copy of their season ticket.

It should like it pay have been that you needed to send in a copy of your season ticket from the train companies point of view. However, you were left under the impression from their staff member that he had verified your details on the system so didn't need to. I guess the inspector at the time was just checking that the person you were claiming to be did have a season ticket so he could justify taking zero payment, but that doesn't automatically mean you don't need to send a copy. Nevertheless, if any actions were required on your part it should have been made clear to you at the time (plus you should have read the paperwork you were given).

Yes, I should have read the slip I was given... that was foolish of me to take the guy at his word.
It was a nice, normal conversation, so I took it all at face value... I'll not make that mistake again.

I go into the same station every day, so tomorrow will ask the enforcement officers there about it and see if I can't find out who took my details.

 

[takno]

Not easy to make out but the signature, if you can call it that, has a different background colour to the rest of the letter, indicating (to me) a scan from another document.

That looks reasonably legit to me. It's pretty normal to just use a scanned signature on form letters now rather than a pp signature, which is what you normally did 10-20 years ago. The return address is also very obviously a railway address, so there isn't much reason to think you're responding to a scammer. The idea of asking you to scribble on the notification and send it back to them when it's threatening prosecution seems insane to me, but appears fairly normal in these cases. Personally I'd send them back a copy of the letter rather than original.

 

[gray1404]

I would reply to that letter filling out the information. I would omit your NI number and occupation if you do not feel comfortable. I would give you version of events in that you realised you left your season ticket at home, spoke to a very helpful member of staff who was able to confirm you were a season ticket holder and am now replying to their letter with a copy of your season ticket. You could inform them of the correct date too.

Hopefully that should be enough for them to drop the matter. They seem to have written to you very quickly after the incident. What date did it happen on?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well, if the address is correct, I would proffer that it's somehow been mistakenly picked up by another member of the protection team and you've been put into "the system". But there are surely more competent people in such matters than me in this group to advise, so I'd better shut up at this point. Only to say that I suspect the wording is standard stuff, nontheless, such letters must come as a shock, and a worrying one at that, to any ticket holder fully innocent of any intent to defraud the railway of revenue.

 

[huntsman34]

I would reply to that letter filling out the information. I would omit your NI number and occupation if you do not feel comfortable. I would give you version of events in that you realised you left your season ticket at home, spoke to a very helpful member of staff who was able to confirm you were a season ticket holder and am now replying to their letter with a copy of your season ticket. You could inform them of the correct date too.

Hopefully that should be enough for them to drop the matter. They seem to have written to you very quickly after the incident. What date did it happen on?

It happened on the Monday (NOT the Tuesday as the letter states) and the letter was sent 3 days later. Seems very quick to me.

 

[gray1404]

OK so Monday 30 October with the letter sent on 02 November. In that case I would not worry, it is not like you will be "out of time" to complete any action that might have been required of you on the slip you were given. I do actually wonder if sending this letter is a mistake on their part. Anyway, I would respond as above. They should know that customers are permitted to forget their season ticket twice a year. I would keep it brief and too the point just to get it dropped.

Anything above bad service, not being informed by the member of staff or them incorrectly sending out a letter is best going later via customer service.

The only other thing I would add is that you need to get your reply done and sent FAST. So get a photocopy of your season ticket and post a copy of your reply to them on here tonight so we can check it. I would personally have it in the post first class by tomorrow as they've only given you until this Thursday to respond. I would ask the post office for a free proof of posting as well.

 

[huntsman34]

Well, here's the bad part... I already sent a letter this morning when I was spitting angry.. before I really started looking into the matter on forums such as this.

Whilst the letter was not nasty and got the information across, it was not nice or cordial...

Oh dear.

 

[gray1404]

Not necessary a problem. You have said it was not a nasty letter and as long as you gave the information. Have you kept a copy of the letter you sent and did you enclose a copy of your season ticket? I think enclosing a copy of the season ticket is important. I would also personally have copied and pasted the section from the NRCoT citing that customers can leave their season ticket at home 2 time a year - although they should know about this.

 

[huntsman34]

Yes. I have a copy of the sent letter (took copies of everything).

Had a friend who works in a ticket office print off a list of all of the tickets SouthEastern have for me on their system and attached that.

Didn't send a copy of my pass, so I'm sending that now.

Letter sent is attached.

 

[gray1404]

Your letter is a bit of a rant and does go on but nevertheless gives all the required information and proof of your season ticket. Best wait an see what their reply is now.

For your return journey home that day, did you buy a paper ticket? If so you are entitled to a refund of that.

 

[huntsman34]

Your letter is a bit of a rant and does go on but nevertheless gives all the required information and proof of your season ticket. Best wait an see what their reply is now.

For your return journey home that day, did you buy a paper ticket? If so you are entitled to a refund of that.

No, I just tapped in and out with my debit card for that. Happy to let that do so long as I can get this sorted out.

Thank you for all of your advice, sirs. Very much appreciated.

 

[Master29]

Rather than a wind up, from the description given, it looks more like a Phishing attack.

I was thinking the same thing. Not usually something a scamster would know though.