Belfast Dublin Enterprise service upgrade funded

[williamn]

It's in a slightly different place to the current station, but mostly a PR thing i guess

Belfast Transport Hub to be called Grand Central Station

The site will replace the current Europa bus centre and Great Victoria Street rail station.

www.bbc.co.uk

At least there's some historical reason to call it that! Makes me feel a bit better towards the name.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Why does the new station have to be called 'Grand Central' which feels very American, rather than retaining the current name?

Of course the one in New York City is actually Grand Central Terminal. Grand Central Station was the name for the Post Office on Lexington Avenue at E 45th Street.

8 platforms may be Grand in an Irish context but is no match for Grand Central Terminal (US) 44 platforms and 67 tracks

 

[johnnydoe]

Of course the one in New York City is actually Grand Central Terminal. Grand Central Station was the name for the Post Office on Lexington Avenue at E 45th Street.

8 platforms may be Grand in an Irish context but is no match for Grand Central Terminal (US) 44 platforms and 67 tracks

Well you'd expect a city with more than 20x the population of Belfast to have a much larger station.

The annual passenger volume of 67m for Grand Central isn't very impressive though for all that station infrastructure. I suspect that it's severly lacking in track capacity outside of the station and that's the bottleneck on passenger numbers? Gare du Nord does 3x the passenger volume with less station infrastructure resources.

 

[The exile]

It looks like it'll be 0.4 miles walking distance from the new Grand Central station entrance to the City Hall and Donegall Square, against 0.7 miles walking from Lanyon Place station. So not enormous, but slightly closer. For Victoria Square or St George's Market, Lanyon Place station would continue to be slightly closer on foot.

Certainly psychologically nearer the centre (to a first time visitor). Lanyon Place seemed to be in the back of beyond.

 

[Starmill]

Certainly psychologically nearer the centre (to a first time visitor). Lanyon Place seemed to be in the back of beyond.

Yes. Currently the concourse at Great Victoria Street is too congested and the exit via Europa interchange is not spacious. Hopefully the actual walk from the platforms to the City Hall will be around the same as it is today, with far less congested and more direct access between platform and street.

 

[johnnydoe]

Certainly psychologically nearer the centre (to a first time visitor). Lanyon Place seemed to be in the back of beyond.

If you're travelling on the Enterprise via Irish Rail to Belfast then a transfer via bus to the city centre is included or instead a train to the Titanic Quarter.

Though I was never clear if a return ticket meant a transfer back to Lanyon Place was included with a return ticket. I never risked it going back.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

The annual passenger volume of 67m for Grand Central isn't very impressive though for all that station infrastructure. I suspect that it's severely lacking in track capacity outside of the station and that's the bottleneck on passenger numbers? Gare du Nord does 3x the passenger volume with less station infrastructure resources.

Remember that the station was originally built for intercity service as well. In the "golden age" of US passenger travel there were numerous New York Central trains to Albany and other points west to Chicago, plus many New Haven Railroad trains to Boston and Springfield MA. Under Amtrak what remains of those trains currently operate to Penn Station. So the station today probably has excess platform capacity.

As a note those numbers don't include the recent addition of the LIRR Grand Central Madison platforms. Of course overall patronage is still down post COVID.

Well you'd expect a city with more than 20x the population of Belfast to have a much larger station.

Agreed, just trying to be funny (and failing). This is definitely a step forward for Belfast providing more capacity plus bringing the Enterprise under the same roof as the local NIR trains.

 

[danm14]

If you're travelling on the Enterprise via Irish Rail to Belfast then a transfer via bus to the city centre is included or instead a train to the Titanic Quarter.

Though I was never clear if a return ticket meant a transfer back to Lanyon Place was included with a return ticket. I never risked it going back.

Yes, it is included in both directions with a return ticket. All staff are well aware of it.

As well as Titanic Quarter, you can also use your ticket to travel by train to Yorkgate free of charge. At Yorkgate, a free bus transfer to Ulster University's Belfast Campus and the City Centre is available for holders of valid rail tickets.

Rail travel to Great Victoria Street, City Hospital and Botanic is also permitted at no extra cost - depending on the day and time it may be quicker to change at Portadown or double back from Lanyon Place, both are allowed.

 

[Starmill]

My return ticket was accepted quite happily during a ticket inspection on entry at Botanic, it was the return use of a ticket from Dublin Conolly.

 

[johnnydoe]

Yes, it is included in both directions with a return ticket. All staff are well aware of it.

As well as Titanic Quarter, you can also use your ticket to travel by train to Yorkgate free of charge. At Yorkgate, a free bus transfer to Ulster University's Belfast Campus and the City Centre is available for holders of valid rail tickets.

Rail travel to Great Victoria Street, City Hospital and Botanic is also permitted at no extra cost - depending on the day and time it may be quicker to change at Portadown or double back from Lanyon Place, both are allowed.

Cheers. Very useful to know.

 

[eldomtom2]

Well you'd expect a city with more than 20x the population of Belfast to have a much larger station.

The annual passenger volume of 67m for Grand Central isn't very impressive though for all that station infrastructure. I suspect that it's severly lacking in track capacity outside of the station and that's the bottleneck on passenger numbers? Gare du Nord does 3x the passenger volume with less station infrastructure resources.

Remember that the station was originally built for intercity service as well. In the "golden age" of US passenger travel there were numerous New York Central trains to Albany and other points west to Chicago, plus many New Haven Railroad trains to Boston and Springfield MA. Under Amtrak what remains of those trains currently operate to Penn Station. So the station today probably has excess platform capacity.

As a note those numbers don't include the recent addition of the LIRR Grand Central Madison platforms. Of course overall patronage is still down post COVID.

City centre stations in the US tend to have bloated platform numbers because of the lack of through-running infrastructure and services - Philadelphia is IIRC the sole exception. NY is a rather aggravating example because Amtrak trains through-run through Penn Station, but commuter trains don't since that would mean running onto another agency's turf.

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to the topic, please.

If anyone wants to discuss US comparisons, please create a new thread; thanks

 

[Snow1964]

Ireland Cabinet today (21st May) agreed the electrification from Malahide to Drogheda

• Government approves major extension of DART under the Coastal North Project, increasing passenger capacity
• Rail project to move into planning system by July
• New battery-electric DART trains to enter service to Drogheda by 2026

The Minister for Transport, Eamon Ryan, has secured agreement from the Cabinet today, 21 May 2024, for the DART+ Coastal North rail project to enter the planning system.
This major public transport project will extend the overhead electric wires on the DART system by 37km, from Malahide in north Dublin to Drogheda in Co. Louth. It will allow for fast, high-frequency and fully electrified DART trains to operate between Dublin city and Drogheda. This will upgrade the rail service to growing communities along the route, including at Clongriffin, Donabate, Balbriggan and Skerries.
Following Government approval today, a Railway Order (planning application) for the DART+ Coastal North project will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála by July. Subject to planning permission and funding arrangements, construction works on the route could commence later this decade, taking approximately three years to complete.
In the meantime, by 2026 there will be a significant boost to rail services between Dublin and Drogheda through the roll-out of 65 new battery-electric DART carriages. These new battery-electric DARTs will replace existing diesel services and provide sustainable modern trains to communities on the route. The development will also be a stepping-stone towards the Coastal North project involving overhead electrification and other capacity improvements on the route. For example, upon completion of DART+ Coastal North, passenger capacity between Malahide and Drogheda will increase from approximately 4,800 people travelling at peak hour in the busiest direction, to 8,800. This is an 83% increase.

Minister Ryan secures approval of DART+ Coastal North

www.gov.ie

 

[dubscottie]

Ireland Cabinet today (21st May) agreed the electrification from Malahide to Drogheda

Minister Ryan secures approval of DART+ Coastal North

www.gov.ie

By 2026.. Not going to happen. I welcome electric trains to Drogheda.
The backlash about DART+ by staff and passengers is going to require a rethink about the trains used.
No luggage racks, no toilets, no tables.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

It's a little confusing that they are both buying battery electric trains to replace DMUs and at the same time stringing catenary from Malahide to Drogheda. Is the reason for battery electric so that they can start DART+ service before the OLE extension is ready? Otherwise why not just buy cheaper EMU's without batteries?

 

[eldomtom2]

Is the reason for battery electric so that they can start DART+ service before the OLE extension is ready?

That seems to be the implication:

In the meantime, by 2026 there will be a significant boost to rail services between Dublin and Drogheda through the roll-out of 65 new battery-electric DART carriages.

 

[duesselmartin]

I assume the battery is for services to Dundalk ect.
As to lack of toilets. None of the Dart fleet has them.

 

[dubscottie]

I assume the battery is for services to Dundalk ect.
As to lack of toilets. None of the Dart fleet has them.

Yes but there are toilets in the city centre if you were desperate on a Bray to Malahide journey say.
A Connolly to Drogheda Dart+ journey that is going to take around 1hr 25 mins without a toilet on the train or at any of the stations isn't going to be pretty.
The lack of tables is a big issue. I reckon about 80% of morning peak users into Dublin have a laptop, college work etc on the tables.
Won't be able to do that in the future.

 

[berneyarms]

I assume the battery is for services to Dundalk ect.
As to lack of toilets. None of the Dart fleet has them.

They won't be going to Dundalk. Only Drogheda.

 

[dubscottie]

They won't be going to Dundalk. Only Drogheda.

If the hourly Enterprise goes ahead (provided it has capacity), It could take the pressure off the DART+.
However its telling that the mockup still hasn't been put on public display. The few members of the public that have seen it are calling it DART minus.



Edit-

New hourly Enterprise planned to start in October.

Iarnród Éireann News

Iarnród Éireann News

www.irishrail.ie

• Services from Dublin Connolly will depart hourly at xx:50 hrs, from 05:50 hrs to 18:50 hrs & then a last service at 20:50 hrs.
• Services from Belfast Grand Central will depart approximately hourly at 06:02 hrs, 07:02 hrs, 08:00 hrs, 09:00 hrs, 10:02 hrs, 11:02 hrs, 12:02 hrs, 13:02 hrs, 14:02 hrs, 15:56 hrs, 16:56 hrs, 17:56 hrs, 19:02 hrs & then a last service at 21:02 hrs.