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Bendy Buses in the UK

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ooo

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After spending time in Germany where many of the busiest buses are operated by bendy buses I wondered why take up of these buses by UK operators is so low.

Boarding and alighting are much faster and many more passengers can be taken than in a normal bus so surely they should be ideal for many inner city routes.
 
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matt_world2004

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After spending time in Germany where many of the busiest buses are operated by bendy buses I wondered why take up of these buses by UK operators is so low.

Boarding and alighting are much faster and many more passengers can be taken than in a normal bus so surely they should be ideal for many inner city routes.

Because they are used for fare evasion and they are a nightmare for motorists and cyclists.
 

Quakkerillo

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Because they are used for fare evasion and they are a nightmare for motorists and cyclists.

Fare evasion: True, but the comfort and ease outweighs the risks of fare evasion. Just put regular checks in place at random stops, with high fines. (In Brussels starting at €107, then €214 after that)

Danger for motorists and cyclists: only if motorists/cyclists and bus drivers are oblivious to what's going on around them. Articulated buses are omnipresent in the Netherlands, with Utrecht even having double-articulated buses. And with the huge load of cyclists there, it's not dangerous in any way.
 

WestCoast

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They work well in some continental European countries (and indeed elsewhere) for many reasons; off-bus integrated ticketing and fare control, more willingness to stand-up for short distances, better cycle lanes, road and bus stop layouts, lower traffic volumes in some cases, knowledge of how much space they need by other drivers etc etc. They can work on select routes in the UK and especially on airport shuttles and suchlike, but they are always going to struggle against the double decker due to a different operating culture.
 
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Antman

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Because they are used for fare evasion and they are a nightmare for motorists and cyclists.

Only if people are allowed to board through the rear door with no ticket check, the ex London ones on Brighton & Hove uni route 25 have been very useful
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Truth and perception.... Capital costs are more expensive, they tend to be heavy on fuel etc. Also, maintenance facilities and road infrastructure have been traditionally biased to conventional vehicles.

The myth is that they're too long to manoeuvre in cities and kill cyclists. If other motorists struggle with them, then it's probably a reflection on their skills
 

MCR247

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Boarding and alighting are much faster and many more passengers can be taken than in a normal bus so surely they should be ideal for many inner city routes.


Since London isn't going to have any in the near future, what cities do you propose are suitable? I can't think of too many cities with suitable routes that almost only serve the city centre and have high passenger turnovers at most stops. Once you've identified those routes, you have to ask whether it is worth investing in buses that can be cascaded on to more secondary routes as they age, or whether it's better to have the buses on the route until they are life expired as they're not suited to any other route....
 

Tommy1581

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Go North East used to have a large fleet of them on routes X40 (now Q3), 58 and X66.
All were withdrawn by March, I believe. The X66 was the busiest of them all, Gateshead - MetroCentre. Always had duplicates on Saturdays and Chrismas periods. The route is now operated by Wright StreetLites.
 

padbus

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Since London isn't going to have any in the near future, what cities do you propose are suitable? I can't think of too many cities with suitable routes that almost only serve the city centre and have high passenger turnovers at most stops. Once you've identified those routes, you have to ask whether it is worth investing in buses that can be cascaded on to more secondary routes as they age, or whether it's better to have the buses on the route until they are life expired as they're not suited to any other route....

Boris's term of office finishes next year and he's now an MP so won't be standing again. The New Routemaster proves that 3-door buses work in London with full off-bus ticketing so how long before the fleet of Mercedes Citaro bendybuses parked up around the country makes its way back London?
 

507021

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Cardiff Bus have a fleet of Scania OmniCity articulated vehicles on the 17/18 and Baycar services
 

TheGrandWazoo

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ChathillMan

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Go North East used to have a large fleet of them on routes X40 (now Q3), 58 and X66.
All were withdrawn by March, I believe. The X66 was the busiest of them all, Gateshead - MetroCentre. Always had duplicates on Saturdays and Chrismas periods. The route is now operated by Wright StreetLites.
They were knackerd by the time they got on the x40. The oddest fleet allocation GNE have ever done imo considering Great Park paid for the service
 

Y961 XBU

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First Bury (by Manchester) still have Scania Bendies

Arriva Speke (Liverpool) got rid of their 10 as 2 caught fire within such a small space of time and the remaining 8 kept breaking down! Shame as i used enjoy getting these on the 500 from the City Centre to the Airport.
 
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Robertj21a

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Quite apart from the silliness of Boris with the 'New Routemaster' (stupid name), he was also instrumental in killing off the London artics by claiming all sorts of failings on their part - most was just totally made up, with no facts whatsoever.

From the outset, revenue control in London was like a comic show, no real plan, or even any idea of how to go about it.

Clearly a case where most of Europe could teach London a good few lessons.
 

ooo

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Quite apart from the silliness of Boris with the 'New Routemaster' (stupid name), he was also instrumental in killing off the London artics by claiming all sorts of failings on their part - most was just totally made up, with no facts whatsoever.

From the outset, revenue control in London was like a comic show, no real plan, or even any idea of how to go about it.

Clearly a case where most of Europe could teach London a good few lessons.
I agree with your point about Europe being able to teach us lessons about how to control fares. In my opinion if more plain clothes inspectors (as are common in Europe) were used then it would be much harder for those wishing to evade fares.
 

Hophead

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I think that some of the Go North-East vehicles migrated south to Brighton & Hove, so that they could have an all-Euro III-engined fleet. There's 22 of them at Lewes Road now, used on route 25 to the universities (although I've never been able to establish if they get used on the N25 as well). They also get allocated to Falmer Stadium park & ride duties as required.
 

ChathillMan

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I genuinely liked the London Mercs. Really suited to th 507 and 521 routes Now operated using rigid mercs with about 12 seats
 

edwin_m

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I agree with your point about Europe being able to teach us lessons about how to control fares. In my opinion if more plain clothes inspectors (as are common in Europe) were used then it would be much harder for those wishing to evade fares.

London may be catching on. Last year I saw an African-looking bloke in dreadlocks and baseball cap stand up on the bus and produced a pass identifying him as an undercover inspector, then proceeded to politely check everyones tickets and Oysters. And recently I saw a TfL poster warning that anyone could be an inspector in disguise.

I agree Paris isn't a good example to follow though...
 

dave12435

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The Bendis weren't very popular in London or so I was told and regardless it was one of BoJos election pledges to get rid of them whatever advantages and disadvantages they had
 

AM9

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The Bendis weren't very popular in London or so I was told and regardless it was one of BoJos election pledges to get rid of them whatever advantages and disadvantages they had

Weren't very popular with who out of about 9m people in London, (apart from Boris)?
 

EM2

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Boris decided that they weren't suitable for narrow, tight London streets, despite the fact that they work very well on York's Park and Ride (just as an illustrative example).
It's not uncommon to see three double-deck 25s in Forest Gate, one behind the other, with the third almost empty, where you would have seen one artic. That's three times as much in wages and fuel being paid out unnecessarily.
 

Bungle965

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I seem to remember a bus company called Red Rocket Buses who last year i think it was decided that they would start running services using Mercedes-Benz Citaros between Manchester and Blackpool, although the services were a mild success the Mercedes were deemed to fuel guzzling and replaced. A few months later the service stopped all together.
Maybe they could not live without there Mercedes :)
Sam
 
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matt_world2004

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Fare evasion: True, but the comfort and ease outweighs the risks of fare evasion. Just put regular checks in place at random stops, with high fines. (In Brussels starting at €107, then €214 after that)

Danger for motorists and cyclists: only if motorists/cyclists and bus drivers are oblivious to what's going on around them. Articulated buses are omnipresent in the Netherlands, with Utrecht even having double-articulated buses. And with the huge load of cyclists there, it's not dangerous in any way.

My Euros to £ conversion isn't great but this sounds similar in monetary value to the fine for fare evasion on London Transport services £80 penalty fare I believe it is for travelling without a ticket. Every driver I spoke to hated the bendy buses, the borismasters have a similar repuation for fare evasion.
 
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Busaholic

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Bendis have not killed anyone

http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2011/10/london-transport

The issue of bad cycling is prevalent in London but then again, so is bad driving.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, as in general I think bendibuses did have a place in London's bus scene, but I believe there was a cycling fatality caused by an artic. It was in January 2005 in Oxford Street, almost opposite Bond Street tube, in the late afternoon. I came out of the tube station intending to go to Selfridge's and found the road closed, including the pavements on both sides, and saw a badly-mangled bike and various paramedics,etc, and the Police CSOs shepherding people. A route 73 artic was the only vehicle there, doors wide open but everyone evacuated including the driver. Later, in Selfridge's having a cup of tea, I heard staff say that the cyclist had died: apparently the air ambulance had managed to land nearby but had been sent away again. Two or three years later, I was having a conversation in my shop with someone (Ben Webster) who was at the time the Transport Correspondent of the Times newspaper and the subject of bendibuses came up - he had heard directly from the mouth of Peter Hendy that no cycling fatality had happened as a direct result of artic operation and I told him of my experience. He asked me to furnish all particulars so he could tackle PH on it and, after a bit of research, I was able to and passed the info on. I never heard back, and shortly afterwards he moved from transport to another briefing. I also believe the London Omnibus Traction Society, of which I'm a member, reported the accident in their newsletter as a fatal one, with the bendi in question being impounded by the police. How this will have been recorded in TfL statistics, though, is another matter.

Having said all that, I believe we'll get articulated buses back in London in the next ten years, in electric form, and maybe even in the form of a trolleybus.
 

the101

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I seem to remember a bus company called Red Rocket Buses who last year i think it was decided that they would start running services using Mercedes-Benz Citaros between Manchester and Blackpool, although the services were a mild success the Mercedes were deemed to fuel guzzling and replaced. A few months later the service stopped all together.
Maybe they could not live without there Mercedes :)
Sam

The Red Rocket was little short of absurd. Taking some Citaro artics which had been stood for goodness knows how long and then puttin them onto a route which is predominantly motorway was always going to end in tears.

Citaros are fine buses, but it is true that they are very heavy on fuel and that parts - particularly in the turntable section - are hugely expensive when things do go wrong. What a Citaro artic isn't is a motorway cruiser. To at least have got the Red Rocket off the ground before DDA became relevant, the ideal tool would have been a smartly refurbished Alexander-bodied B10M: frugal, capable of motorway miles and almost completely bulletproof.
 

Robertj21a

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I'm playing devil's advocate here, as in general I think bendibuses did have a place in London's bus scene, but I believe there was a cycling fatality caused by an artic. It was in January 2005 in Oxford Street, almost opposite Bond Street tube, in the late afternoon. I came out of the tube station intending to go to Selfridge's and found the road closed, including the pavements on both sides, and saw a badly-mangled bike and various paramedics,etc, and the Police CSOs shepherding people. A route 73 artic was the only vehicle there, doors wide open but everyone evacuated including the driver. Later, in Selfridge's having a cup of tea, I heard staff say that the cyclist had died: apparently the air ambulance had managed to land nearby but had been sent away again. Two or three years later, I was having a conversation in my shop with someone (Ben Webster) who was at the time the Transport Correspondent of the Times newspaper and the subject of bendibuses came up - he had heard directly from the mouth of Peter Hendy that no cycling fatality had happened as a direct result of artic operation and I told him of my experience. He asked me to furnish all particulars so he could tackle PH on it and, after a bit of research, I was able to and passed the info on. I never heard back, and shortly afterwards he moved from transport to another briefing. I also believe the London Omnibus Traction Society, of which I'm a member, reported the accident in their newsletter as a fatal one, with the bendi in question being impounded by the police. How this will have been recorded in TfL statistics, though, is another matter.

Having said all that, I believe we'll get articulated buses back in London in the next ten years, in electric form, and maybe even in the form of a trolleybus.

I recall that case but can't remember the exact detail of what was found out in the investigation. I think it may be the same case as the one where the cyclist effectively placed themselves under the bus (i.e the artic turned out to be the innocent party).
 

Strathclyder

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The only operator with artics in the Greater Glasgow area these days is McGill's, who have ex-London Citaros. They can mainly be found on their 38 (Glasgow City Centre - Spateston/Kilbarchan via Paisley & Johnstone) and peak-hour runs of the X23 (Glasgow - Erskine Express).

Before McGill's, the biggest 'artic' operator in the city was First Glasgow. They had Wright-bodied Volvo B7Ls & B10LAs.
The B7Ls lasted until late 2011/early 2012 (they were falling apart by the end), but the last 4 B10LAs (which were much better machines) managed to linger on until the SimpliCITY network was introduced at the end of May 2013. The ones in the best shape were sent up to Aberdeen to see out their final days, whilst the ones that were in rubbish mechanical/external condition were sent to the scrappers. When the end of the First Glasgow artics came, the 9 (Drumchapel Station - Linwood) was their last major stronghold.
 
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