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Best European Tram Operator: your thoughts?

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uwantjason

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What are peoples opinions and experiences on what is the best Light rail system in Europe?



Why are they the best and what differentiates them from the rest?
 
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AlexNL

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I think you're never going to get a clear winner out of this, because everyone has their own preferences. But I'll be happy to provide you with some input!

A few months ago I was in Stockholm and I was very impressed by the Tunnelbana system (subway) operated by MTR of Hong Kong under a concession granted by SL. The trains were spacious and modern looking, the journeys I made felt fast (even if they weren't, perception is key), the frequency was pretty good (6tph off peak), the price was right (300 SEK for a 7 day ticket, about £ 22,60) and I was impressed by the stations.
 

Gordon

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I think you're never going to get a clear winner out of this, because everyone has their own preferences. But I'll be happy to provide you with some input!

Alex is spot on! ... because... straight away we have a problem in that the Stockholm T Banen is IMHO generally considered a Metro, not a tram/light rail network! So under my parameters doesn't count anyway!

The categorisation of tram/light rail versus light metro/heavy metro/ U-Bahn/ S-Bahn etc etc is generally accepted as a bit of a minefield.

Tram / light rail is generally considered to be anything based mainly on a traditional surface operation, whether fully on street or on reserved formation, however there are so many systems (eg Tyne & Wear Metro, Utrecht, London DLR, Brussles pre-metro, German systems that were put partially underground eg Koeln, Ruhr area) now that muddy the differentiation it is gets very very hard!

According to my parameters, systems such as Zuerich and Helsinki would be near the top of my list. Both efficient, clean etc



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WestCoast

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Lots of contenders but thinking about it Vienna is probably my favourite tram network if I had to choose. Why? It's inexpensive, most lines run every 5 minutes, it covers a lot of the city, it has a nice mix of old and new trams, it's very well integrated to the buses/U-Bahn/S-Bahn (all connections are actually announced at each stop) and most of all, the trip around the Ring past the highly impressive State Opera, Parlament, Hofburg etc is something quite special that not many other networks can compete with.
 

Gordon

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The construction was an utter farce, but I don't see an awful lot wrong with the way Lothian Buses (to all intents and purposes) are operating it.


Literally just booked a short break in Edinburgh so will see it for the first time and be able to judge against my vast experience of trams around the world.

I'm going with my Dad who wrote 3 books on the original Edinburgh trams
 

90019

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The construction was an utter farce, but I don't see an awful lot wrong with the way Lothian Buses (to all intents and purposes) are operating it.

Lothian don't run the trams, they're a separate company who operate independently of the buses.
Not that much is actually shared between them, despite appearances. (And the council trying to pinch our money to fund extending the tram line).
 

Groningen

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Edinburgh: 1 tramline; 15 stations; 14 kilometers; cost 776 million pounds (375 was the first prediction). It must have more than that to call it a true tram town! I think that nothing more will be built if you divide the cost with the amount of kilometers.

800px-Edinburgh_tramway_map.svg.png


Of course i go for Amsterdam and Den Haag. I removed Rotterdam, because it has a river to cope with. Amsterdam and Rotterdam has (of course) a Metro; something that Den Haag does not have.

Amsterdam

Link

Den Haag

Link
 
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radamfi

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Of course i go for Amsterdam and Den Haag. I removed Rotterdam, because it has a river to cope with. Amsterdam and Rotterdam has (of course) a Metro; something that Den Haag does not have.

Although Den Haag is served by Metro E from Rotterdam. Now that there is a tunnel underneath the city centre you effectively have a "premetro" there too.
 

317666

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Oh god where to start...! I'll have to add another vote for Vienna I think, as well as being very interesting from an enthusiast's point of view it's also very well run. Berlin, Munich and Zürich also have very good tram networks, and in the case of all of them bar Zürich the city also has a great U-Bahn network too.
 

AlexNL

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Although Den Haag is served by Metro E from Rotterdam. Now that there is a tunnel underneath the city centre you effectively have a "premetro" there too.

That's easier said than done, due to platform height differences. The subway vehicles from Rotterdam are built for high platforms, while the tramway system in The Hague is built for low platforms.

Between Den Haag Centraal and Leidschenveen the systems share tracks, but each platform has a low part and a high part. If you'd want to run vehicles from Rotterdam to anywhere else but the existing platforms, you'll have to start a construction project.
 

radamfi

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That's easier said than done, due to platform height differences. The subway vehicles from Rotterdam are built for high platforms, while the tramway system in The Hague is built for low platforms.

I meant the tram/light rail lines currently travelling through the new tunnel could be considered to be a "premetro" (so excluding RET metro E), similar to Antwerp or Brussels.
 

Ianigsy

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I have a soft spot for Helsinki - I was there last December and the operators actually offer a self-guided city tour leaflet for tourists so you can catch one of the routes which form a figure of 8 around the city centre and follow the sights from your window.
 

Groningen

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Although Den Haag is served by Metro E from Rotterdam. Now that there is a tunnel underneath the city centre you effectively have a "premetro" there too.

I know; in the past it was a normal trainline from Den Haag CS to Rotterdam Hofplein and v.v.. Now at Rotterdam Kleiweg it takes another route below ground.
 

fandroid

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Stuttgart has a fun system. They call it the U-Bahn (or Stadtbahn), and the vehicles look like metro trains rather than trams. It's really a pre-metro as it's below ground in the city centre, but it runs on streets for most of the routes, although they are mostly segregated on traffic-free streets or down median strips. The great feature is that it climbs some serious hills.

Dresden has a good traditional tram system. I have a soft spot for Warsaw too. The trams are either very swish modern PESA units or beautifully refurbished older vehicles (Tatra?).
 

Taunton

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I have a soft spot for Helsinki - I was there last December and the operators actually offer a self-guided city tour leaflet for tourists so you can catch one of the routes which form a figure of 8 around the city centre and follow the sights from your window.
Helsinki certainly has a feel of an "older" tram network, much of it on street. Have seen it run through a blizzard few days as if that was nothing unusual. In contrast the Helsinki Metro, just one line, seems a bit pointless. The whole system doesn't really carry heavy loads.

Another favourite system of mine is Milan, where there is still a very large fleet of 1930s cars which just seem to go on and on, mixed in with various newer ones, and again is a traditional on-street network.

I haven't been to Vienna for many years but I get the impression that it hasn't changed a great deal, and certainly is a big system.

In Russia, St Petersburg, which once had the largest network in the world, is now a sad shadow of that, many routes abandoned and the cars and trackwork in poor condition, with the remaining routes a random arrangement (it reminds me of how Philadelphia USA's system went in the 1970s). Almost all the cars are still Soviet era, a few with new bodies or even just new front ends, and patronage has fallen way off. In contrast the Metro in the city is well planned and run, and handles huge loads all day.

If you include systems lighter than mainstream Metros, then London's DLR has to be up there for efficiency and handling the loads.
 
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duesselmartin

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I had a rather nice experience at Leipzig this weekend. A good variety of Bombardier, Duewag/Kiepe and Tatra trams, wonderful views and, unlike my home system in Düsseldorf, very smooth running.
 

BrianP

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It is a few years since I travelled on it but the tram system in the Ruhr must be one of the most extensive in the world. I managed to travel from Krefeld, through Duesseldorf then to Duisburg, Muelheim, Essen, and beyond. However, there was a gap which prevented me continuing on to Dortmund (which has its own large network) except by bus but perhaps that has now been fixed. The various city operators all seemed very efficient.
 

duesselmartin

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Brian, you could extend that journey from Essen to Gelsenkirchen and then to Herne and Bochum. Although some parts of that journey are in LRT tunnel sections.
 

BrianP

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Hi Martin

Yes I did continue to Bochum (and also to Gelsenkirchen) but isn't there still a short gap with no trams between there and Dortmund?

BrianP
 

flierfy

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Of course i go for Amsterdam and Den Haag. I removed Rotterdam, because it has a river to cope with. Amsterdam and Rotterdam has (of course) a Metro; something that Den Haag does not have.
In which way does coping with a river exclude Rotterdams RET from being a excellent tram operator?
 

duesselmartin

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Hi Martin

Yes I did continue to Bochum (and also to Gelsenkirchen) but isn't there still a short gap with no trams between there and Dortmund?

BrianP

yes, Brian, there is an obvious gap to Dortmund. I am almost certain there used to be a connection by LRT/Tram. Sadly the Rhine-Ruhr network is shrinking with Mülheim closing some lines and Duisburg struggling to keep the system going.
 
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