Best passenger high speed train in UK?

[AverageTD]

373 or 374, the only proper high speed trains in this country

I was waiting on someone to say this . It's the same conclusion I drew up in the other older thread (post #8).

 

[Energy]

Will this do?

Produktdetail - Stadler

www.stadlerrail.com

The FLIRT200 is a high-speed single-decker Intercity train.

How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?

The GA units are FLIRT160s

 

[capitalconnect]

A German friend, also a driver asked me what i thought the best high speed train we have is in my view? I have to say i like the Azuma best. Fast, good looking, good cabins and a real leap forward from the HSTs i used to drive.
You?

I do not like any of them to be honest. All of the 220/221/222/390/800/801/802 are pretty rubbish trains with bad designs and many problems. I have found the DB ICE trains to be a lot better than ours. If i had to pick one than probably the 395 are the best. If the 180s are considered "High Speed Trains" than they are quite good too (if you ignore the reliability problems in the past).

 

[eastdyke]

The GA units are FLIRT160s

I know, I am looking forward to what might be ...... (on 'suitable' routes of course).

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I'm quite happy with 375 / 377 / 379.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm quite happy with 375 / 377 / 379.

Not really high speed by any stretch.

 

[railfan100]

125mph is simply not high speed if you look at the railways in the wider world, Eurostar excepted since the 1970's and 80's in my opinion the ambition of the railways has gone down and backwards. The APT originally planned for 155mph and then the IC250 project showed ambition to compete with other countries in respect of high speed travel, we now simply have speeds that BR paved the way for back in the 1970's.

 

[irish_rail]

Class 80xs are superb all round (including the seats, contrary to popular belief - have made 5 long journeys on IETs in the last 2 weeks and comfortable throughout)

Oh well that settles that then. All those 1000s of complaints about the seats must have been people with time on their hands causing mischief.
The seating is very subjective, but I am yet to find many people that think it is suitable for 5 hour journeys.....

 

[Journeyman]

Oh well that settles that then. All those 1000s of complaints about the seats must have been people with time on their hands causing mischief.
The seating is very subjective, but I am yet to find many people that think it is suitable for 5 hour journeys.....

They're fine if you ask me.

 

[Wapps]

125mph is simply not high speed if you look at the railways in the wider world, Eurostar excepted since the 1970's and 80's in my opinion the ambition of the railways has gone down and backwards. The APT originally planned for 155mph and then the IC250 project showed ambition to compete with other countries in respect of high speed travel, we now simply have speeds that BR paved the way for back in the 1970's.

Yes because we have made use of existing (Victorian!) lines in order to achieve conventional high-speed. The exception is HS1. That will change of course with HS2 and other projects, when in terms of speed we will leap frog the rest of Europe.

When you consider what has been achieved in the UK in terms of relative speed, frequency and fantastic safety - without building dedicated high-speed lines (and in fact mixing the use of the lines - intercity, regional and freight all on the same lines) - it’s actually quite impressive. HS2 and others will take it to the next level.

 

[AverageTD]

Yes because we have made use of existing (Victorian!) lines in order to achieve conventional high-speed. The exception is HS1. That will change of course with HS2 and other projects, when in terms of speed we will leap frog the rest of Europe.

When you consider what has been achieved in the UK in terms of relative speed, frequency and fantastic safety - without building dedicated high-speed lines (and in fact mixing the use of the lines - intercity, regional and freight all on the same lines) - it’s actually quite impressive. HS2 and others will take it to the next level.

Alternatively, our railways have been deprived to the point where we've had to push old lines to their maximum capacities and speeds while still not being able to match the speeds, trains lengths, or reliability of our European neighbours.

Yes it is impressive what we've managed to do with a bunch of old lines but the fact that we needed to do this in the first place is more telling of our "high speed" situation.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The much maligned 390 Pendolino. Whilst not perfect, it's comfortable, and quick.

Last one I got on had no window view from my seat, limited head wiggle-room, and it was dimly lit. The new Northern trains were far comfier.

 

[Wapps]

Alternatively, our railways have been deprived to the point where we've had to push old lines to their maximum capacities and speeds while still not being able to match the speeds, trains lengths, or reliability of our European neighbours.

Yes it is impressive what we've managed to do with a bunch of old lines but the fact that we needed to do this in the first place is more telling of our "high speed" situation.

We can chat long and hard about why we haven’t built dedicated high speed lines until now, but you have to face the world as you come to it. We are where we are and can’t change the past. The focus has to be on pushing forward HS2 and NPR etc for the future generations.

 

[dk1]

They're fine if you ask me.

Fine with me too. I’ve noticed the snarly comments on social media from some regarding them have almost dried up now.

 

[Harold Hill]

""How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?""

For as long as the 800s are running Bristol to London!

 

[py_megapixel]

""How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?""

For as long as the 800s are running Bristol to London!

In don't really understand that logic... if you'd said Newcastle to London, for example, then I'd understand.

The First Great Western HSTs - Standard Class at least - were not very nice. They had the typical early-2010s FirstGroup problem of pink and blue being splatted everywhere with no regard for what is actually aesthetically pleasing. Combine that with the dreadful fluorescent lighting and very high-backed seating and you have an environment that is not what anyone would call pleasant.

(The high-backed seating was reasonable enough comfort-wise but it did create a fairly claustrophobic feel)

 

[Harold Hill]

In don't really understand that logic... if you'd said Newcastle to London, for example, then I'd understand.

The First Great Western HSTs - Standard Class at least - were not very nice. They had the typical early-2010s FirstGroup problem of pink and blue being splatted everywhere with no regard for what is actually aesthetically pleasing. Combine that with the dreadful fluorescent lighting and very high-backed seating and you have an environment that is not what anyone would call pleasant.

(The high-backed seating was reasonable enough comfort-wise but it did create a fairly claustrophobic feel)

I used to travel First Class but yes fair do's - maybe its just the 800s, I love their speed and relative silence but its the seats and lighting that's the problem

 

[43096]

""How long are HST lovers going to remain in a time warp?""

For as long as the 800s are running Bristol to London!

“Until something better comes along” is the obvious answer!

 

[Non Multi]

Fine with me too. I’ve noticed the snarly comments on social media from some regarding them have almost dried up now.

They don't get used by people who dislike them. Once bitten, etc.

 

[Journeyman]

They don't get used by people who dislike them. Once bitten, etc.

I think that's absolute nonsense. I very much doubt the 80x units have made anyone give up rail travel.

 

[CBlue]

I think that's absolute nonsense. I very much doubt the 80x units have made anyone give up rail travel.

It's a silly argument trotted out every time something changes on the railways (new stock being introduced etc.)

Even with power doors, MK3 coaches of all flavours are an accessibility nightmare. Replace a modern EMU with a rake of those (perhaps with IC70 seats for added nastiness) and see how many people it upsets... certainly on the Great Eastern you'll find few tears shed since the loco hauled stock was withdrawn.

 

[Journeyman]

It's a silly argument trotted out every time something changes on the railways (new stock being introduced etc.)

Even with power doors, MK3 coaches of all flavours are an accessibility nightmare. Replace a modern EMU with a rake of those (perhaps with IC70 seats for added nastiness) and see how many people it upsets... certainly on the Great Eastern you'll find few tears shed since the loco hauled stock was withdrawn.

Absolutely agree. I've had plenty of arguments with people getting gooey eyed with nostalgia for slam-door stock that was actually horrible to travel in compared to modern trains. Enjoying something old for purely leisure purposes is entirely different to everyday essential travel, and I'd choose modern trains for that every time.

 

[coppercapped]

Fine with me too. I’ve noticed the snarly comments on social media from some regarding them have almost dried up now.

Fewer people travelling...?

 

[dk1]

Fewer people travelling...?

I think they’ve just given up as nobody’s listening.

 

[James James]

The GA units are FLIRT160s

Flirt 160 vs 200 is mostly a marketing exercise and not that significant for operating speed. Ask them for 200 and they'll upgrade the required components to operate at 200, but it's not a fundamentally different train. Or vice-versa. Just like plenty of carriages on the continent got upgraded from 160 to 200 with a few tweaks.

Just look at the PKP flirts which Stadler lists on the Flirt 200 page, but nevertheless are specced for 160, have the 160 front, but 200 doors. The 745 has something like the 200 front, 160 doors, specced for 160 - same story with the TFW units. Or then move onto the Dostos, where Westbahn have Dostos rated for 200 km/h that are really just a Dosto 160 but with components upgraded to run at 200 (the second series got different doors, and are pressure-tight - but the original ones didn't have that).

 

[Nova1]

I have to be honest I personally think the Pendilinos are very nice trains
Good acceleration and a good ride quality, even when tilting.
Really nice interior imo, no harsh lighting, standard class seats are fairly comfortable and the first class seats are very comfy.
Only thing I don't like is that there are only plug sockets at table seats.

 

[Mikey C]

As a step change from what was there previously, the 395s get my vote

Obviously mainly down to HS1 rather than the trains which are comfortable but functional inside rather than luxurious, but there is something really impressive about the way they trundle through Kent on the classic lines, then hit the turbo boost once they get on HS1! Going twice as fast as the cars on the A2 and M20 never ceases to impress me.

 

[Journeyman]

I think they’ve just given up as nobody’s listening.

Yeah. Enthusiasts moan about new trains, underfloor engines, multiple units etc in the hope everyone will agree with them, but they rarely do.

 

[Non Multi]

I think that's absolute nonsense. I very much doubt the 80x units have made anyone give up rail travel.

I for one don't do long distance travel on XC as I'd end up with a brutal migraine after 3-4 hours above an underfloor diesel.

If you want to dismiss/gaslight/insult, fine, be my guest. Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything less from this forum.

 

[ashkeba]

Yeah. Enthusiasts moan about new trains, underfloor engines, multiple units etc in the hope everyone will agree with them, but they rarely do.

How much doez it matter whether normal passengers agree with enthusiasts or not? The railway is not a democracy and even when it is publicly operated it is rare an MP is fired over railway decisions.

And the train can be awful and still people will use it because drivin is worse.