Best positioning of 1st class

[GodAtum]

I find that the Southern class 377s with 1st class at either end or Thameslink 700 at the front are the best positions, because it's very easy to work out where to stand.

Most annoying is the South Western 444 with 1st class at one end where it's 50/50 that I'm standing in the right place, depending on how it's facing.

 

[Failed Unit]

I find that the Southern class 377s with 1st class at either end or Thameslink 700 at the front are the best positions, because it's very easy to work out where to stand.

Most annoying is the South Western 444 with 1st class at one end where it's 50/50 that I'm standing in the right place, depending on how it's facing.

Be interesting how GN users will feel about that positioning when they are fully in use. But heading north it isn't welcome as they have to walk the full length of the train at Kings Cross.

However GN is suffering at the moment - as you don't know until the train arrives if it is going to be a 365, 700 or 387. So if you stand at the front of the platform and a 387 shows up you need to get to the rear quickly.

I agree with your view on the 377, behind each cab is perfect in my view. Like the 365s on GN, 170s on Scotrail etc.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Class 377/6 and 7's only have first class at one end, however, on all the 377's, first class is clearly labelled inside and out. The bold yellow band contrasts nicely with the green.

 

[swt_passenger]

Most annoying is the South Western 444 with 1st class at one end where it's 50/50 that I'm standing in the right place, depending on how it's facing.

They are almost always at the London end, and the normal diagrams are designed to keep them that way. It is completely incorrect etc to say it is 50/50, and the CIS displays nearly always mention when they are wrong way round.

I’m getting a sense of deja vu here, I’m sure this misconception has been challenged before.

 

[43096]

They are almost always at the London end, and the normal diagrams are designed to keep them that way. It is completely incorrect etc to say it is 50/50, and the CIS displays nearly always mention when they are wrong way round.

I’m getting a sense of deja vu here, I’m sure this misconception has been challenged before.

It is (certainly was under Stagecoach) shown on the JourneyCheck page when the set was in reverse as well. It happened more often with the 159s after the Yeovil Pen Mill/Westbury/etc extensions started. With the 444s it most often happened when weekend engineering work caused diversions.

 

[route:oxford]

The best positioning of First Class is when East Coast trains are in reverse formation and have First Class at the Capital end.

It's a long way to run from one end to the other when there's a tight connection at Waverley.

 

[The_Engineer]

The best positioning of First Class is when East Coast trains are in reverse formation and have First Class at the Capital end.

It's a long way to run from one end to the other when there's a tight connection at Waverley.

Has this changed then? As built, the first class was at the London end, behind the DVT. Standard class is at the "country" end, as only the TOE coach could couple to the Class 91 loco......

 

[skyhigh]

Has this changed then? As built, the first class was at the London end, behind the DVT. Standard class is at the "country" end, as only the TOE coach could couple to the Class 91 loco......

First is definitely at the London end with the DVT when running in normal formation. I guess it depends on which capital you're talking about though...!

The best positioning of First Class is when East Coast trains are in reverse formation and have First Class at the Capital end.

It's a long way to run from one end to the other when there's a tight connection at Waverley.

 

[Failed Unit]

Depends as well which platform you arrive at in Waverley.

Platforms 11&19 good.
Platform 2 bad
Platforms 8&9 what have we done to deserve this? Horrible platforms unsuitable for intercity trains and passengers with lots of baggage. The fact first gets caught up with people and bags on steps makes connections difficult.

 

[mark-h]

Depends as well which platform you arrive at in Waverley

The under construction platforms 5+6 will result in the "London End" being furthest from the entrance/exit from the station.

 

[Spartacus]

Only the same as when one pulls into the bays at Leeds.

 

[RichJF]

Class 377/6 and 7's only have first class at one end, however, on all the 377's, first class is clearly labelled inside and out. The bold yellow band contrasts nicely with the green.

I think some 377/6 & 7's have first class at the inner end of the outer coach. This means a little section of standard, then first, then 4 coaches of standard again!

 

[sluf]

I personally like the London end set up on VTWC Pendalinos as when I treat myself to the 20.30 to Preston first class, you are spared the mad 11 car dash that Euston usually provides when announce the platform 6 minutes before departure. It also means that when boarding at Preston you are stood at the empty southern end of Platform 4 while everyone crowds near the bottom of the ramp at the northern end.

 

[E_Reeves]

I agree on the Pends, first class on the London end is practical for most commuters in/out of London.

I hate where 1st class is on the LNR 350s; you just get people walking through the compartment for the entire journey...

 

[ScotTrains]

I quite like the Scotrail turbostar set up with 1st class at both ends. It avoids having to look out for it/ walk the length of the train to get in to it. Also, you don't get Standard class passengers walking through.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree on the Pends, first class on the London end is practical for most commuters in/out of London.

I hate where 1st class is on the LNR 350s; you just get people walking through the compartment for the entire journey...

Given that it's a total sham, being inferior to Standard, "the bin" would be the best location for it on LNR.

The only LNR units with First Class worth paying for are the 319s.

 

[Mordac]

Given that it's a total sham, being inferior to Standard, "the bin" would be the best location for it on LNR.

The only LNR units with First Class worth paying for are the 319s.

First class seats on the 350/1s are the only seats that have actually given me back pain while sat in them. Trully awful. However, I'd say the 350/2s offer an improvement in first, though how much of that is because standard is worse, rather than because first is better...

Never been on the 319s, as my journeys tend to be further North from their hunting grounds.

 

[hexagon789]

I would generally say at the London-end as it's traditional and the best place to have it in my opinion.

 

[bramling]

I would generally say at the London-end as it's traditional and the best place to have it in my opinion.

The only problem is this means people will likely be walking through before and for some time after departure - unless between the cab and first door. Hence having first in this position at the London end is best, and if more is required then do the same at the opposite end. In other words exactly as in the 365s.

By contrast GTR have managed to come up with an awful position on the 387s. The 317/1s were awful for people walking through too, although there might have been some logic to this - roughly in the middle of the train so never too far away for a train which can become turned, and in the middle of an unpowered vehicle for best ride quality, also near the toilet too.

 

[peri]

VTEC are missing a trick here, reverse at Newcastle and save 1st class passengers from walking/waddling so far after their free food/drink.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why is it that a few people walking through in the first few minutes of a journey is such a disaster? Sounds like a first-world problem to me.

Fair enough if it happens all journey then there's an issue either with the layout (if those walking through have no choice) or the stewarding.

 

[bramling]

Why is it that a few people walking through in the first few minutes of a journey is such a disaster? Sounds like a first-world problem to me.

Fair enough if it happens all journey then there's an issue either with the layout (if those walking through have no choice) or the stewarding.

Is it really providing the best experience for premium-paying passengers to subject them to "keep walking this is first class" for potentially up to half an hour at the start of the journey?

First-world problem maybe, but nothing would ever improve if we took that attitude to everything.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is it really providing the best experience for premium-paying passengers to subject them to "keep walking this is first class" for potentially up to half an hour at the start of the journey?

First-world problem maybe, but nothing would ever improve if we took that attitude to everything.

I'm sure that the times that's still happening 30minutes in will be the exception rather than the rule... if not, perhaps some investigation into levels of lead in the drinking water in the areas in question needs to be carried out!

 

[bramling]

I'm sure that the times that's still happening 30minutes in will be the exception rather than the rule... if not, perhaps some investigation into levels of lead in the drinking water in the areas in question needs to be carried out!

I was more referring to somewhere like a London terminus where people may well be on the train for some time before the actual departure.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was more referring to somewhere like a London terminus where people may well be on the train for some time before the actual departure.

Ah... then I'm not sure of a solution to that, other than putting first-class at the country end; and employing a fleet of sedan-chairs and attendants!
A more practical solution would be to either use the first-class lounge and then only head to your train 5 minutes before departure like all of those creating the problem do... or, to simply not let something relatively insignificant spoil your trip.

 

[bramling]

Ah... then I'm not sure of a solution to that, other than putting first-class at the country end; and employing a fleet of sedan-chairs and attendants!
A more practical solution would be to either use the first-class lounge and then only head to your train 5 minutes before departure like all of those creating the problem do... or, to simply not let something relatively insignificant spoil your trip.

On 1/3 2/3 door trains the solution is very simple - put the first class next to the cabs.

I wouldn't say it's enough to spoil a trip, but it's certainly a minor irritant that would be good to see designed out where easily practicable.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don’t see a 12 car 450’s first class provision being improved by having 6 smaller 8 seat locations rather than 3 reasonably sized 24 seat compartments behind sliding doors. People are still going to be using the intermediate gangways as normal to get along the train, affecting most of the First areas.

I wonder if all the First customers from somewhere such as Winchester will fight amongst themselves for the front 8 seats of the 48 total?

 

[mmh]

Is it really providing the best experience for premium-paying passengers to subject them to "keep walking this is first class" for potentially up to half an hour at the start of the journey?

First-world problem maybe, but nothing would ever improve if we took that attitude to everything.

How do you tell if the person walking past is a premium-paying passenger looking for their carriage / seat or a hoi-polloi passenger?

Latecomers (i.e. often everyone at Euston!) walking through the train at the start of a journey don't annoy me, but sometimes there behaviour does. Two of my pet dislikes are people who'll enter an empty carriage - on a train that's already moving, so it's not going to suddenly fill - and insist on spending 10 minutes faffing around to find their seat, rather than just choosing somewhere empty. I've seen a couple do this at Euston then spend the next 15 minutes moaning about having seats with no window. Yes, those seats are awful, so just move somewhere else. (I moved instead, just to get out of earshot of them)

The other is the "next stop Euston, start packing everything up and stand up" routine so many do on Virgin West Coast. It's bad enough when they do it at Watford - and walk through to the front of the train, because those 30 seconds must be so vital to them - but sometimes it starts not long after Milton Keynes, which is really silly. I don't recall it being as bad on other routes, at least not the Great Western.