Best union for drivers

[neilo5678]

Hi All,

I see there are many threads in this but what union is best at present for Train drivers. I start with a TOC operating out of London Vic in May. Currently I’m with Unison but may be a better option for a driver.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ainsworth74]

ASLEF are a driver specific Union so would be the logical choice.

Home | ASLEF

aslef.org.uk

 

[Chucky]

ASLEF is the only union for drivers. RMT do take drivers but you won't have any representation in your depot or on company council.

 

[BigPondFish]

Is this the same for depot drivers ASLEF omly?

 

[Volvictof]

Is this the same for depot drivers ASLEF omly?

Not necessarily.

 

[Yfg132]

ASLEF is a bespoke union for drivers.

Any driver not in aslef is very foolish or not allowed to join for whatever reason. ASLEF and it's members are the reason each and every driver has the working conditions and salarys of today. Anyone not in Aslef who thinks otherwise, deep down knows this is true.

 

[jacey]

I'm about to start as a trainee train driver, i have been seriously considering joining a Union.

Can someone please explain why it's a good idea and how much does it cost ?

Sorry i really no nothing about unions so any info is helpful.

 

[LowLevel]

I'm an RMT guard and have been for many years.

Drivers are generally best in ASLEF. There are plenty of issues that can come up when driving that the specific knowledge of that union and it's reps are very helpful for. The RMT reps are generally very good in their own way but their specialisation is different.

There are exceptions but that is a good general rule. London Underground is one where on some lines the RMT is the main union for historical reasons.

 

[High Dyke]

I'm about to start as a trainee train driver, i have been seriously considering joining a Union.

Can someone please explain why it's a good idea and how much does it cost ?

Sorry i really no nothing about unions so any info is helpful.

The main benefit of a trade union is protection for you at work. Consider it as an insurance policy. You insure your car or your home. Why not insure your job.

 

[LCC106]

It’s as said above like insuring yourself at work. It’s often referred to as a very expensive diary you get sent each year. The reality is being a member of ASLEF can save you your job if you are ever involved in an incident. Again as said ASLEF is very driver specific so in my personal opinion that’s the one to join. Definitely do so proactively because if you aren’t a member and try to join post incident they are under no obligation to represent you for that incident.

 

[Yfg132]

As echoed above, it's insurance and people say it's an expensive diary etc but forget we would probably be on half the salary without the battles ASLEF and it's members have fought for.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Join Aslef. Anybody who tries to talk them down (expensive diary, don't see the benefit) doesn't have your interests at heart. There's strength in unity and collective bargaining, and having a union which is specific to your job rather than a vague collection of trades within an industry, like RMT, is a godsend.

 

[43066]

ASLEF are a driver specific Union so would be the logical choice.

Home | ASLEF

aslef.org.uk

Agreed.

Any driver not in aslef is very foolish or not allowed to join for whatever reason.

Would there ever be circumstances where anyone wasn’t allowed to join?

In my experience of drivers who aren’t members, it tends to be because they’ve chosen to leave after disagreeing with their reps etc., or because they were guards historically and wanted to retain RMT membership.

 

[Yfg132]

Agreed.



Would there ever be circumstances where anyone wasn’t allowed to join?

In my experience of drivers who aren’t members, it tends to be because they’ve chosen to leave after disagreeing with their reps etc., or because they were guards historically and wanted to retain RMT membership.

I know of a couple who have been kicked out or have not been allowed to join for reasons unknown.

I know one of the said above, stood against them in court.

 

[jacey]

Thanks for this feedback all, it seems a good idea to join ASELF and i shall once through classroom training.

 

[SJN]

Thanks for this feedback all, it seems a good idea to join ASELF and i shall once through classroom training.

You’ll probably have a couple of reps visit you in the classroom to explain stuff to you and dish out the forms to sign.

 

[12LDA28C]

You’ll probably have a couple of reps visit you in the classroom to explain stuff to you and dish out the forms to sign.

Indeed. It's common for an ASLEF rep to be invited into the classroom to speak to a new cohort of trainees to explain the benefits of joining and the risks / disadvantages involved if they don't.

 

[Crazyb]

I'm a LDC rep for my depot (ASLEF).....We have a good sort of relationship with my company.....Most problems are sorted out at local level and you will be surprised what we can achieve for drivers, so yes it's worth joining. Anyone say it's an expensive diary are not worth the time of day, and if that's the case, why don'y they leave!!!

You can join RMT, and you could find that some depots could be a majority of RMT with drivers....There are depots out there.

You can join who you like, but if the majority will be ASLEF for drivers......If you need representation in the driving grade, then preferably you will need an ASLEF rep, as if your in the RMT, the person representing you from RMT maybe be a rep that maybe in the role of station staff, and may not know a drivers conditions.

I'm not sure on the price scale, but the scale is what your current earning are, so a trainee driver would pay a lot less than a qualified.

I'm not sure what the Southern is like now, but in the 80/90's they were quite militant and you will find most are ASLEF......Though the railway has changed over the last 5 years massively, so not sure whats it's like now.

And who are Unison...lol

I hope I make sense, and welcome to the driving grade.

I'm about to start as a trainee train driver, i have been seriously considering joining a Union.

Can someone please explain why it's a good idea and how much does it cost ?

Sorry i really no nothing about unions so any info is helpful.

Because if you **** up, you will be out the door.....At the end of the day, your a number and with no union representation they can just easily get rid of you.....

Cost.....you will pay a lot less than a qualified driver, but you will need to look into that yourself.....I pay £34:08 which is the max, every 4 weeks

 

[43066]

Some okay advice above.

 

[ComUtoR]

Because if you **** up, you will be out the door.....At the end of the day, your a number and with no union representation they can just easily get rid of you.....

This is just the usual anti-managment, Union rhetoric.

Your job is always at risk. That is the nature of working in a very risk adverse,.safety based, environment.

It's worth noting that these comments always begin with "if you mess up...".

There are plenty of Drivers out there with records as long as their arms and plenty with blank safety of the line records. "If you do something wrong," no Union can magically save you. Whilst they do act like loophole lawyers at times. They are there to ensure fair process and ensure the company follows it's procedures correctly.

What they are very good at is working with Management to make the depots run smoothly. They assist in managing leave and rosters, bank holiday rotations, rest day and OT balance, they are part of the policy checking process and will also make sure that training etc is at a good quality and fit for purpose.

The Union is so much more than an "insurance policy"

 

[43066]

This is just the usual anti-managment, Union rhetoric.

Your job is always at risk. That is the nature of working in a very risk adverse,.safety based, environment.

It's worth noting that these comments always begin with "if you mess up...".

Also a very fair point.

If you screw up often enough and/or badly enough, there is nothing any union can do to save your job, and the normal disciplinary scenario will run its course, as with any employer.

However, the union will advise you, represent you in hearings, and ensure that the company follows due process in each case. That could be worth is weight in gold.

There are plenty of Drivers out there with records as long as their arms and plenty with blank safety of the line records. "If you do something wrong," no Union can magically save you. Whilst they do act like loophole lawyers at times. They are there to ensure fair process and ensure the company follows it's procedures correctly.

What they are very good at is working with Management to make the depots run smoothly. They assist in managing leave and rosters, bank holiday rotations, rest day and OT balance, they are part of the policy checking process and will also make sure that training etc is at a good quality and fit for purpose.

More good points raised here. The relationship between unions and TOCs is a lot more symbiotic than many of the IR threads on here would have anyone believe.

 

[Crazyb]

This is just the usual anti-managment, Union rhetoric.

Your job is always at risk. That is the nature of working in a very risk adverse,.safety based, environment.

It's worth noting that these comments always begin with "if you mess up...".

There are plenty of Drivers out there with records as long as their arms and plenty with blank safety of the line records. "If you do something wrong," no Union can magically save you. Whilst they do act like loophole lawyers at times. They are there to ensure fair process and ensure the company follows it's procedures correctly.

What they are very good at is working with Management to make the depots run smoothly. They assist in managing leave and rosters, bank holiday rotations, rest day and OT balance, they are part of the policy checking process and will also make sure that training etc is at a good quality and fit for purpose.

The Union is so much more than an "insurance policy"

Whilst I do agree with you with "your job is always at risk", trainees do have a choice at the end of the day, if they what to join or not.......I'm not forcing them to join with the words of "you will be out the door if you **** up" but with todays micro management, who knows, its better than having something than nothing......We all know BR was different and most management came through the ranks, and had a bit of savy....

Maybe that came out a bit wrong, and I personally wouldn't scaremonger into joining any union. At the end of the day, it's there choice.

 

[ZNB13]

Whilst I do agree with you with "your job is always at risk", trainees do have a choice at the end of the day, if they what to join or not.......I'm not forcing them to join with the words of "you will be out the door if you **** up" but with todays micro management, who knows, its better than having something than nothing......We all know BR was different and most management came through the ranks, and had a bit of savy....

Maybe that came out a bit wrong, and I personally wouldn't scaremonger into joining any union. At the end of the day, it's there choice.

I personally left ASELF years ago over a deal at my TOC. You are safe guarded by your employment contract and UK Law.

If you do mess up, just seek an employment lawyer. You end up paying the same amount as you would do paying into ASLEF. Especially as the subs go up every year and you may not get a pay rise or won't get a pay rise, while ASLEF top brass still get their £85+k then expect you to lose money.

Also you get a professional educated lawyer rather than a P** head rep, who doesn't understand the law. An employment lawyer will ripp apart and Driver Manager.

 

[12LDA28C]

I personally left ASELF years ago over a deal at my TOC. You are safe guarded by your employment contract and UK Law.

If you do mess up, just seek an employment lawyer. You end up paying the same amount as you would do paying into ASLEF. Especially as the subs go up every year and you may not get a pay rise or won't get a pay rise, while ASLEF top brass still get their £85+k then expect you to lose money.

Also you get a professional educated lawyer rather than a P** head rep, who doesn't understand the law. An employment lawyer will ripp apart and Driver Manager.

And of course you get to benefit from any pay increase negotiated by ASLEF without having the inconvenience of having to pay your weekly subs, eh? You're onto a winner!

 

[ZNB13]

And of course you get to benefit from any pay increase negotiated by ASLEF without having the inconvenience of having to pay your weekly subs, eh? You're onto a winner!

I personally don't care about the money! Haven't done for years. I work to my contract, the work frame agreement mean nothing to me as most drivers I know break all of the agreements to cover shifts, then moan about ASLEF and Company. Then all I hear is the reps telling them to stop it, but they don't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm friends with the LDC here and they ask me for advice, I feel sorry for all LDC, DFC reps. Anyone higher than that, are in the position for far to long with they feet under the table with Top Brass!!

 

[43066]

I personally left ASELF years ago over a deal at my TOC. You are safe guarded by your employment contract and UK Law.

If you do mess up, just seek an employment lawyer. You end up paying the same amount as you would do paying into ASLEF. Especially as the subs go up every year and you may not get a pay rise or won't get a pay rise, while ASLEF top brass still get their £85+k then expect you to lose money.

Also you get a professional educated lawyer rather than a P** head rep, who doesn't understand the law. An employment lawyer will ripp apart and Driver Manager.

I can understand people disagreeing with the union, and there’s no compulsion to belong, of course. On the other hand, ultimately you’re going to be affected by what they negotiate, so surely it’s better to be inside than out?

 

[Sorcerer]

Is there by any chance a culture among train drivers that those who don't join unions are considered freeloaders for enjoying the perks and salary of the job that was attained by collective bargaining and unions without actually being part of said union and making a small contribution? Or is that just a lot of nonsense I've heard?

 

[ZNB13]

I can understand people disagreeing with the union, and there’s no compulsion to belong, of course. On the other hand, ultimately you’re going to be affected by what they negotiate, so surely it’s better to be inside than out?

You are right, you are going to be affected by what happens anyway. Trust me, you won't get a vote on this deal, they will accept it on behalf of the members. So why pay into them for? I'm better off £400 per year. Then if things go sour you'll lose £300 per day if not no rest days or annual leave.

Is there by any chance a culture among train drivers that those who don't join unions are considered freeloaders for enjoying the perks and salary of the job that was attained by collective bargaining and unions without actually being part of said union and making a small contribution? Or is that just a lot of nonsense I've heard?

If you work hard and you are good at your job, no one can call you a freeloader. I find it a load of nonsense. The railway is changing faster than what you think. I don't go in on a strike day, I have the day off. I just don't pay ASLEF or get a say in a deal or vote.

 

[12LDA28C]

I don't go in on a strike day, I have the day off. I just don't pay ASLEF or get a say in a deal or vote.

So.... you're not in ASLEF and seem to actively dislike the union and as you're not a member you didn't vote for strike action but you still support the union by not going in on strike days (and I assume losing a day's pay as a result). So you're saving your £400 per year, but still losing £300 per day by taking part in a strike you didn't vote for, is that right?

 

[43066]

I personally left ASELF years ago over a deal at my TOC. You are safe guarded by your employment contract and UK Law.

Specifically which ASLEF deal did you object to, out of interest?