Best union for drivers

[ZNB13]

So.... you're not in ASLEF and seem to actively dislike the union and as you're not a member you didn't vote for strike action but you still support the union by not going in on strike days (and I assume losing a day's pay as a result). So you're saving your £400 per year, but still losing £300 per day by taking part in a strike you didn't vote for, is that right?

I don't support ASLEF at all. I won't cross the picket line as I don't want to undermine my colleagues. Yes I lose a day's pay, but only the day's pay, as I don't pay into the union anymore. As said before, I'm friends with my LDC.

 

[Crazyb]

Like ive said, it's people choice...The driver above wasn't happy what the union done and the union accepted the pay deal, so they came out of the union, but you have to look at the bigger picture.

When I was on the freight also being LDC and other roles within my Branch, we felt we were invisible and frustrating to say the least and not great to see all the luxury's the TOC's got and we had nothing, though it has got better.

I'm at a TOC now and as I've stated in a previous post, I'm LDC.....Ive done this LDC job for a number of years and with out looking at the negatives we have achieved a lot for our members. I'm not going to say too much on this open forum, but we have negotiated new links for the family driver links/PT links, which don't have to be agreed by HR, RD claims, which I know drivers can do this.....We have squashed MFA's, including the ones in COVID, we have got RDs back that drivers have lost out on, we have got HR to changed their out of date policy's, we've done loads.

Ive had cases with ill health and drivers have walked away with some big payments, though my company would give you a years salary, on the freight you got jack **** unless it's changed now.

Though it wasn't great on the freight when it went tits, the union District Officers manage to secure some drivers jobs at TOCs.

I've been on the footplate since I was 17 and over the years which is a lot, there have been loads of disagreements with the District Officers which does include pay, and like the driver said above, it's annoying when they accept a deal on your behalf....I see the bigger picture, but my choice is to stay as I see more items being resolved being in a union, than not...

My view you either join or you don't......If you don't join, no driver will treat you any different....If your not sure, then ask for help when you join your depot....

 

[ZNB13]

Specifically which ASLEF deal did you object to, out of interest?

To many to call over the last 38 years. Eating away at T&C selling them off.

Like ive said, it's people choice...The driver above wasn't happy what the union done and the union accepted the pay deal, so they came out of the union, but you have to look at the bigger picture.

When I was on the freight also being LDC and other roles within my Branch, we felt we were invisible and frustrating to say the least and not great to see all the luxury's the TOC's got and we had nothing, though it has got better.

I'm at a TOC now and as I've stated in a previous post, I'm LDC.....Ive done this LDC job for a number of years and with out looking at the negatives we have achieved a lot for our members. I'm not going to say too much on this open forum, but we have negotiated new links for the family driver links/PT links, which don't have to be agreed by HR, RD claims, which I know drivers can do this.....We have squashed MFA's, including the ones in COVID, we have got RDs back that drivers have lost out on, we have got HR to changed their out of date policy's, we've done loads.

Ive had cases with ill health and drivers have walked away with some big payments, though my company would give you a years salary, on the freight you got jack **** unless it's changed now.

Though it wasn't great on the freight when it went tits, the union District Officers manage to secure some drivers jobs at TOCs.

I've been on the footplate since I was 17 and over the years which is a lot, there have been loads of disagreements with the District Officers which does include pay, and like the driver said above, it's annoying when they accept a deal on your behalf....I see the bigger picture, but my choice is to stay as I see more items being resolved being in a union, than not...

My view you either join or you don't......If you don't join, no driver will treat you any different....If your not sure, then ask for help when you join your depot....

Well said thank you.
I understand how hard Local Reps work, I was a rep myself for 10 years. That's why I come out after bang my head against the wall a few times and this is the reason I won't undermine the my colleagues. Also why I still get asked questions from current LDC.

 

[Stigy]

Agreed.



Would there ever be circumstances where anyone wasn’t allowed to join?

In my experience of drivers who aren’t members, it tends to be because they’ve chosen to leave after disagreeing with their reps etc., or because they were guards historically and wanted to retain RMT membership.

When you apply to join a union, you effectively have to be voted in at one of their meetings as far as I’m aware? It’s unlikely anyone would be rejected from what I gather, but if they blotted their copy book whilst a member at another union for example, I gues ASLEF aren’t obliged to allow them to join?

 

[43066]

When you apply to join a union, you effectively have to be voted in at one of their meetings as far as I’m aware? It’s unlikely anyone would be rejected from what I gather, but if they blotted their copy book whilst a member at another union for example, I gues ASLEF aren’t obliged to allow them to join?

Fair point. A related question: (apart from not wanting to pay two lots of subs!) is there anything to stop someone being a member of both ASLEF and the RMT at the same time?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Fair point. A related question: (apart from not wanting to pay two lots of subs!) is there anything to stop someone being a member of both ASLEF and the RMT at the same time?

Don't think so. Believe a driver at my depot is in both. Wanted to stay RMT as his dad is fairly high up but joined aslef when he became a driver. He strikes on both ASLEF and RMT days.

 

[MatthewLdn]

On the discussion of unions, I’m currently a member of the rmt. However, I will soon be starting my trainee train driver course and so I will join aslef. Does anyone know how you go about cancelling your rmt membership please? Is it just a case of cancelling the direct debit?

 

[Stigy]

On the discussion of unions, I’m currently a member of the rmt. However, I will soon be starting my trainee train driver course and so I will join aslef. Does anyone know how you go about cancelling your rmt membership please? Is it just a case of cancelling the direct debit?

Email them and tell them you wish to cancel, then cancel the DD to be on the safe side. That’s what I did.

 

[MatthewLdn]

Email them and tell them you wish to cancel, then cancel the DD to be on the safe side. That’s what I did.

Thanks Stigy!

 

[Groindz]

My RMT fee comes out of my wage. I'm starting as a depot driver/shunter in the coming weeks, should I cancel my membership and join ASLEF?

 

[Stigy]

My RMT fee comes out of my wage. I'm starting as a depot driver/shunter in the coming weeks, should I cancel my membership and join ASLEF?

Join when you start your training. I’m not sure if it’s the same at all TOCs/FOCs generally, but we had a visit from a DDC rep who went through all the union stuff and we signed up on that date. There’s no urgency to it.

 

[Groindz]

Join when you start your training. I’m not sure if it’s the same at all TOCs/FOCs generally, but we had a visit from a DDC rep who went through all the union stuff and we signed up on that date. There’s no urgency to it.

Okay, thanks. I will join ASLEF when the time comes, but is there any need for me to remain with RMT? Any extra benefit to be connected to both or should I just stick with ASLEF? Thanks

 

[LowLevel]

Okay, thanks. I will join ASLEF when the time comes, but is there any need for me to remain with RMT? Any extra benefit to be connected to both or should I just stick with ASLEF? Thanks

If you're not personally invested in the RMT for whatever reason probably not, it'll just cost you more money.

 

[whoosh]

Also a very fair point.

If you screw up often enough and/or badly enough, there is nothing any union can do to save your job, and the normal disciplinary scenario will run its course, as with any employer.

However, the union will advise you, represent you in hearings, and ensure that the company follows due process in each case. That could be worth is weight in gold.



More good points raised here. The relationship between unions and TOCs is a lot more symbiotic than many of the IR threads on here would have anyone believe.

This bit. If you do mess up, and then have an incident again later on, did the company support you properly after the first one? Rather than booting you out of the door, a case could be made for you to have retraining and support (which you should've had to start with).

Would there ever be circumstances where anyone wasn’t allowed to join?

There was a case of someone being dismissed from the union, and I dare say that if a person tried to join with it known that they have similar views, then not being allowed to join could well be an outcome.

More information here on that particular case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Lee_(politician)



There can be a big variance in how good and approachable Local Level Reps (LLR) - also sometimes known as Local Departmental Committee (LDC) - are. At my first depot about an eighth of Drivers left ASLEF. It was a large depot and the contigent that left ended up reaching about 19 drivers.
At the depot I'm at now, I think everyone is in ASLEF and the Local Reps are excellent - in fact across the company (different company to my first depot), the Reps are very good. What your conditions actually are with regards to how and when your hours can be changed and by how much, what walking times are, we all get a printed copy of; email updates about what's going on.
Much better!
Perhaps that these things are simple and are taken for granted by some reading this only highlights that some aren't very good!

In general it's worth joining. This is an industry with a large number of union members (especially amongst traincrew), with a tradition of sticking together. Also, for any 'outsiders' my experience is that Reps seek to find solutions to problems, rather than the 'sticking spanners in the works' narrative that certain newspapers like to have you believe.

 

[Robsey]

ASLEF is a bespoke union for drivers.

Any driver not in aslef is very foolish or not allowed to join for whatever reason. ASLEF and it's members are the reason each and every driver has the working conditions and salarys of today. Anyone not in Aslef who thinks otherwise, deep down knows this is true.

This depends what TOC you're in. For instance I'm with Southeastern and am not in ASLEF as they're pretty useless here. I don't consider myself foolish in the slightest.

 

[ZNB13]

ASLEF is a bespoke union for drivers.

Any driver not in aslef is very foolish or not allowed to join for whatever reason. ASLEF and it's members are the reason each and every driver has the working conditions and salarys of today. Anyone not in Aslef who thinks otherwise, deep down knows this is true.

I'm not a fool pal. I see through the BS and everyday their are becoming more political and losing their way as a union. As for conditions, they aren't as many as BR days. ASLEF sold most of them off every year for 2.5/3.5%.

 

[LCC106]

Don’t forget that you can opt out of Labour receiving any funds from your subs if you wish.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I can understand people disagreeing with the union, and there’s no compulsion to belong, of course. On the other hand, ultimately you’re going to be affected by what they negotiate, so surely it’s better to be inside than out?

Reminds me of another union. I seem to remember you having a different viewpoint on that one, however.