Peter Sarf
Established Member
An opinion I have about electric trains going beyond the wires is this. If the non-electrified end of a route is not electrified then it will get electrfied at some point later. The point at which it gets electrified is a combination of when it becomes cost effective (fuel prices), when demand grows (as more people use the service through from the electrified end or local services start cluttering the route up) and/or when new stock is required. If these factors don't come into play then the inferior performance of an electric train being dragged by a diesel does not matter - yet.
An example of this is Edinburgh to Inverness/Aberdeen. I would prefer to see a 67 (or pairs) waiting for the 91+Mk4s at Edinburgh to take them on to Aberdeen or Inverness. When the lines become busy enough and cluttered with stopping services to say Dundee then that gets electrified from Edinburgh and the 67s live at Dundee. Same for Perth on the way to Inverness.
I do feel that Cardiff to Swansea is short enough to warrant not bothering with a half done electrification and should get done as part of GWML. But perhaps something like Paddington-Worcester could continue with limited stop lumbering diesels to Oxfrd that have electrics keeping out of their way on the stopping/semi-fast services to Oxford. For Swansea the problem is the capacity beyond Cardiff seems to already be stretched by local services.
My same argument goes for NE-SW. Once the Midland main line is electrified then Doncaster/York to the MML is an infill or TPE gets there first. Then Derby past Birmingham to the bottom of the Lickey is an infill. Then Bi-modes in the form of Voyagers with pantograph coaches become tempting. These Bi-mode voyagers might have come second hand from say Paddington-Worcester (or Paddington-Swansea).
I feel that we could have a load of ADAPTED trains for bi-mode not new trains. These dont have to have a long service life on the route they first get used on (I wish !). Once one route gets electrified in its entirety they can move on to the next half done route in the hierarchy. Candidates are Edinburgh - north, Cardiff - west (though I hate that), Oxford -west, NE-SW (Yorkshire, Midlands, Severn vale, beyond Bristol), Bristol - southwest, Birmingham-Bristol.
I dont see why we should build brand new bi-mode trains for what I hope is a limited life. Instead build new purpose built electric trains for new electric routes and use the older stock for bi-mode jobs. If a route deserves better than second hand Mk4s+67s or adapted Voyagers then why is it not getting electrified already ?. We do need to electrifiy enough routes to warrant new electric trains and then cascede. An example is the Midland main line - the Voyagers for example can become bi-mode, thats plenty of them.
An example of this is Edinburgh to Inverness/Aberdeen. I would prefer to see a 67 (or pairs) waiting for the 91+Mk4s at Edinburgh to take them on to Aberdeen or Inverness. When the lines become busy enough and cluttered with stopping services to say Dundee then that gets electrified from Edinburgh and the 67s live at Dundee. Same for Perth on the way to Inverness.
I do feel that Cardiff to Swansea is short enough to warrant not bothering with a half done electrification and should get done as part of GWML. But perhaps something like Paddington-Worcester could continue with limited stop lumbering diesels to Oxfrd that have electrics keeping out of their way on the stopping/semi-fast services to Oxford. For Swansea the problem is the capacity beyond Cardiff seems to already be stretched by local services.
My same argument goes for NE-SW. Once the Midland main line is electrified then Doncaster/York to the MML is an infill or TPE gets there first. Then Derby past Birmingham to the bottom of the Lickey is an infill. Then Bi-modes in the form of Voyagers with pantograph coaches become tempting. These Bi-mode voyagers might have come second hand from say Paddington-Worcester (or Paddington-Swansea).
I feel that we could have a load of ADAPTED trains for bi-mode not new trains. These dont have to have a long service life on the route they first get used on (I wish !). Once one route gets electrified in its entirety they can move on to the next half done route in the hierarchy. Candidates are Edinburgh - north, Cardiff - west (though I hate that), Oxford -west, NE-SW (Yorkshire, Midlands, Severn vale, beyond Bristol), Bristol - southwest, Birmingham-Bristol.
I dont see why we should build brand new bi-mode trains for what I hope is a limited life. Instead build new purpose built electric trains for new electric routes and use the older stock for bi-mode jobs. If a route deserves better than second hand Mk4s+67s or adapted Voyagers then why is it not getting electrified already ?. We do need to electrifiy enough routes to warrant new electric trains and then cascede. An example is the Midland main line - the Voyagers for example can become bi-mode, thats plenty of them.
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