They don't need it. Kings Cross, Paddington, Waterloo, etc are all instantly recognisable without 'London'. The same is true for some stations in other towns and cities: Mordor Central, Waverley, Temple Meads, Finlandska, Zoo... Even something as vague as Gare du Nord is in practice instantly identifiable. I don't think either of the Bicester stations have quite achieved that status.
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Bicester Town > Village - flawed renaming
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I lived in Aylesbury for a bit.
And surely you should therefore be supporting anything that would encourage modal shift to reduce traffic congestion by Tesco?
67018
Member
Fine if you are in the know, not so good if you aren't. I had a colleague once who was most confused when we arrived at Zurich Hauptbahnhof, as he knew that Hauptbahnhof station was in Frankfurt...
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Bicester is a fort (see its name 
) and the military depot reinforces that. Perhaps this should become a 'sticky' thread. It seems to have a life of its own.
edit : so I recommend Fort Bicester -which would appeal to the Americans.
) and the military depot reinforces that. Perhaps this should become a 'sticky' thread. It seems to have a life of its own.edit : so I recommend Fort Bicester -which would appeal to the Americans.
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Sorry, but the traffic problems linked to Bicester Village post-Christmas over a number of years have been documented at great length by the local papers. A very defined issue.
The new Bicester park-and-ride site is being opened specially tomorrow - three days earlier than planned - to allow for Black Friday, however lacking in promotion by Bicester Village it allegedly is.
What has Tesco got to do with it? Unless in the context that the Bicester Village expansion will see it taking over the adjacent Tesco site - a store that loses out on custom during the days of Bicester Village-related chaos, as a result of sharing the same access road.
As for modal shift, there won't be much when it comes to people travelling to Bicester 'Village' from London - use of rail by shoppers from that direction is well-established already, even via the confusingly-named Bicester North. Where it should make a difference is from the Oxford direction - and the likes of Didcot, Reading and Swindon or beyond once the line reopens all the way into Oxford - and also from Milton Keynes at the end of the decade - but such a shift would likely happen anyway, whatever the station is called, if people get the message loud and clear that they need not get stuck in a traffic jam, because they can get a train instead.
It's catching - this renaming business.
"Kanye West station name bid launched by Southeastern commuter in Canterbury"
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/bid-launched-to-name-station-47004/?
There's more in the article (unfortunately).
"Kanye West station name bid launched by Southeastern commuter in Canterbury"
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/bid-launched-to-name-station-47004/?
There's more in the article (unfortunately).
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The traffic snarls up a bit, but usually only on Saturday mornings and usually only in the few weeks immediately after Christmas. Bicester Village have a well-organised park and ride out at the barracks.
Most of the whingeing is vaguely defined nonsense, basically NIMBYism with a bit of occasional casual racism about the clientele of the place.
If you think a traffic jam on the A34 back to Oxford and crawling traffic on the M40 from Junction 9 back to Banbury, never mind utter chaos in and around Bicester itself - with the police and Bicester Village both telling people to stay away - is a bit of a snarl-up and vaguely defined nonsense, god help us.
This is what happened a year ago. Plenty for people in Bicester just trying to go about their daily lives - amid gridlock and cars just dumped here there and everywhere - to get angry about. And this after years of problems on Boxing Day. Nothing whatever to do with racism.
http://www.buckinghamtoday.co.uk/ne...ic-chaos-surrounds-bicester-village-1-6446275
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...around_Bicester_as_police_warn_to_avoid_area/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-30245000
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67018
Member
Exactly. A year ago. So the park and ride was introduced and there's not been a significant problem since. Isn't a year long enough to get over a traffic jam?
If problems happen again, will renaming the station to 'Bicester Town' cause the traffic queues to evaporate?
Andyjs247
Member
Bicester Village does not need to advertise. It gets more than enough visitors. And Black Friday is supposedly not happening at Bicester Village. Yet stores are staying open till midnight having opened at 0700 and hundreds of extra staff recruited. Similarly, Chiltern Railways did not need to rename Bicester Town station.
An elaborate traffic management plan has been put in place to mitigate any traffic problems since last year's chaos. Things have been less bad since traffic management was outsourced to the same company that managed the 2012 Olympic Games. Signs have been out for days - in the town and also some miles away - with the threat of vehicles being towed. Cones everywhere too. Plenty of marshals out - some before 0600! So the whole operation is not without cost. The Park & Ride has only just opened (it officially opens on Sunday when the S5 will begin to stop there). There are several other off-site locations in addition.
So far people seem to be shopping online rather than clogging up the roads. It's actually been quite quiet
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
That seems like a weird thing to claim. Coca Cola does not need to advertise. It sells more than enough cola. It still spends a king's ransom on advertising to maintain and expand market share.
As you know full, well what happened on Black Friday last year was the culmination of year after year of problems in and around Bicester on Boxing Day, which year after year produced ritualistic promises that things would get better next time. Except they did not, bar a bit of tinkering which achieved next to nothing.
Only when they managed to spread the chaos as far as Oxford and Banbury - and presumably stuffed up the operations of a lot of businesses many miles from Bicester by clogging up a motorway and a trunk road for hours on end a year ago - did the message seem to finally get through to Bicester Village's management that tinkering around the edges was no longer sustainable and all the elaborate and expensive arrangements that Andy describes were put into effect.
Which, mercifully, combined with the lack of promotion and advertising of Black Friday this year - and perhaps the experiences of people caught up in last year's events - seem to have done the trick. If they can manage it again on Boxing Day for a second year running that's great.
But it does not excuse Bicester Village one little bit for allowing what was an obvious problem, over so many years, to climax in that utter shambles before they finally got serious about addressing it.
And Chiltern's services may also help - though those have run on Boxing Day to Bicester North for two years anyway and having Bicester in the name of the railway stations has clearly been quite enough of an indication for many people, over many years, that they could get a train to the vicinity of the shopping centre - even though in China it is apparently being marketed as Bicester Village London...*
* Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-33252945
What I think is somewhat strange was the input of one or two NR employees here, which seemed to be saying 'we don't care what it's called'. OK they are only employees, but NR is the owner (AIUI) of this station, as it is of all of them, regardless of who helped pay for them. I just wonder if their reaction was typical in NR circles.
Would you find it acceptable if the Royal Mail said to you, 'We don't like the name of your house so we 've altered it to ......?
Would you find it acceptable if the Royal Mail said to you, 'We don't like the name of your house so we 've altered it to ......?
andrewkeith5
Member
NR own the station, but responsibility for operating it lies with Chiltern, so I see very little reason why they would care what it's branded as so long as it isn't unreasonable- and naming it after the hugely popular destination it is immediately adjacent to is hardly unreasonable. The only real costs involved are signage (which would most likely be changed during the upgrade anyway) and changes to the computer systems which in the grand scheme of things can't be that expensive.
And your Royal Mail example is the wrong way around. A realistic example would be "would Royal Mail care if you changed your address from a number to a house name?" To which the reply would probably be not one jot provided you filled in the right forms and paid whatever the fee is.
The Planner
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Exactly, as I responded in post 61 and 67
andrewkeith5
Member
Sorry, I will have read it! 40 posts later and the same rubbish points still being made and shot down...... Gotta love nimbyism!
The Planner
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No problem, I think HowardGWR hadn't read back through the thread either.
Andyjs247
Member
What has nimbyism got to do with it??
And so far nobody has answered why the so-called consultation was so far removed from that for Evergreen 3 or East West Rail and indeed why Chiltern Railways did not consult with relevant stakeholders. I don't suppose that Chiltern Railways will want to change the name back but that does not excuse the defective process. But given that the lions share of investment in this project together with EWR is coming from the taxpayer, I for one would like to understand how we have arrived at this point.
Lack of effective oversight at Network Rail may be one thing but I cannot believe that the Infrastructure Owner does not have a view on this. It rather seems they don't care and if someone wanted to you probably would get the nod for 'Mordor Central' even - if someone filled in the form and paid the fee that is!!
And is it really right and proper that so much public money can be invested which, by virtue of renaming the station after a private business then effectively becomes a subsidy to that particular business - its not just the signage but onboard announcements as well that are in effect advertising. I don't agree that that is reasonable; others may have a different view.
The Planner
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Presumably then you also have issues with the IBM station in Scotland and with Etihad Campus on Manchester Metrolink?
Andyjs247
Member
Yes there are potentially issues also. With IBM station though I understand it is within what was the IBM complex. Not all trains stopped and it wasn't really convenient for local housing. Hardly the main station in town and currently declining in use.
I'm not familiar with the Etihad campus but again it's not the main station in town. A bigger issue would be the need to rename if sponsorship changed. Presumably why Coventry Arena station is being called that and not Ricoh Arena.
It really should be a geographical name unless there is some overwhelming reason not to. If a station is totally within a large industrial complex with no access elsewhere then it would be reasonable to use the business name...
Is Bicester not a geographical name?
I was brought up in Beckenham. There are 3 stations with the town name, B Hill, B Junction and New B. Junction is conventionally the name for a station where you have to change for the town - Stourbridge, Llandudno - and plenty more... Which of these serves the town centre? Answer, Beckenham Junction, so called because it became a junction 150 years ago.
Bicester now has Village and North. Which of the two, would an outsider guess, serves the town centre?
I was brought up in Beckenham. There are 3 stations with the town name, B Hill, B Junction and New B. Junction is conventionally the name for a station where you have to change for the town - Stourbridge, Llandudno - and plenty more... Which of these serves the town centre? Answer, Beckenham Junction, so called because it became a junction 150 years ago.
Bicester now has Village and North. Which of the two, would an outsider guess, serves the town centre?
Andyjs247
Member
"Bicester Village" is not a geographical name, it's a designer outlet. Bicester is a town. It is not a village. And both Bicester stations are convenient for the town centre.
RPM
Established Member
Can I just say something for, what I promise is the last time? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Please, please try to get over it. It is a done deal. Get your head around it.
Oh yes I did!
(The pantomine season is upon us). Not really a NIMBY as I live about 150 miles away. I think the discussion is an interesting one.--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Neither.
andrewkeith5
Member
Bicester Village has a geographical location, which in reality is actually quite well known - probably much more so than Bicester town centre. Arguably, it is also the primary reason for travel to the combined geographical area of Bicester and Bicester village (note not commuting from).
Therefore it can be used as a geographical name.
Agreed. Point is, those are the names generally used. I'm not sure, for instance, whether Paddington is strictly London Paddington or just Paddington. Does it matter? "Single to Paddington" for the familiar is the same as "Single to London Paddington" for the unfamiliar or indeed "Single to London". But Bicester is hardly in the same category, I don't think "Single to Village" or even "Single to Town" would work...
:roll:
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