Bicycle provision on trains

[dorsetdesiro]

There's an article in the Guardian, that GWR has denied a customer's claim they lost a bicycle reservation in the post, prompting a dispute with the TOC. This caused a palaver by arguing with the guard which luckily for the customer that they were eventually let on. The comments below article were lamenting about GWR's poor offering of bicycle provision.

In this country we are so far fortunate that we are not charged an extra fare for taking a bicycle as in some European countries. I wonder if there's a TOC is bike friendly or is not harsh towards cyclists?

In my experience, South Western Railway within Dorset & Greater Anglia in north Essex and south Suffolk were fairly good, no need for a reservation as you can just turn up with the bike and the GA guards were kind enough helping to load my bike on intercity trains.

One downside with SWR is they plan to remove a bicycle storage area in one carriage, on refurbished 444s, for more seating. Oh well...

 

[318266]

One downside with SWR is they plan to remove a bicycle storage area in one carriage, on refurbished 444s, for more seating. Oh well...

I would put folding seats in the bike places so when people aren't using them other people can sit down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would rather be charged a reasonable fee because that would create a contract the TOC would have to properly fulfil and could be in breach of necessitating alternatives or compensation being paid, e.g. in the event of a short notice replacement bus service not conveying cycles despite my having paid to reserve and convey one on a given train this might entitle me to a complimentary Anytime Return to come back to collect my bicycle that I had to leave at a station for reasons outwith my control to take a replacement bus.

For the same reason (and to stop the "might as well because it's free") I would like to see a fee for seat reservations introduced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would put folding seats in the bike places so when people aren't using them other people can sit down.

This is an incredibly bad idea because side-facing tip-ups are very popular seats particularly with tall people, and people will not readily move out of them, leaving the bikes being put in bad places e.g. by the doors. For similar reasons laying it out for general luggage space is also bad.

Better for it to just be a dedicated unobstructed space, but laid out such that standing there is viable on busy trains where cycles are not permitted to be carried.

 

[mmh]

I would put folding seats in the bike places so when people aren't using them other people can sit down.

I thought the "normal" seats in the bike / wheelchair areas on Southern turbostars and older electrostars were a nice idea - they're standard seats where the base can fold up when the space is needed. Unfortunately, the electrostar seat bases (which just flip up) have largely broken and won't stay folded up, while the turbostar seat is very elaborate and impressive, but few people seem to realise the seat is convertible - it's not at all obvious.

 

[318266]

How about a storage container for bike on a reinforced luggage rack.

 

[318266]

@mmh, that's what I meant. Except using the 380's as an example.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I would put folding seats in the bike places so when people aren't using them other people can sit down.

SWR already have the folding seats in dedicated areas for bikes in the 450s, so hope the new extra seating planned for 444s would also be longitudinal fold-ups that I can accept as these would be opposite the toilet and no windows on one side so not attractive for sitting there outside peak times! Unless this is a big overhaul by removing the toilet and putting in new windows....

 

[sefton]

This is an incredibly bad idea because side-facing tip-ups are very popular seats particularly with tall people, and people will not readily move out of them, leaving the bikes being put in bad places e.g. by the doors. For similar reasons laying it out for general luggage space is also bad.

Better for it to just be a dedicated unobstructed space, but laid out such that standing there is viable on busy trains where cycles are not permitted to be carried.

Put the seats there and if someone wants to put a bike there they they pay for the privilege. A bike will stop three seats being used so paying a triple fare (plus obliously the bike rider's fare) would sound reasonable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Put the seats there and if someone wants to put a bike there they they pay for the privilege. A bike will stop three seats being used so paying a triple fare (plus obliously the bike rider's fare) would sound reasonable.

No, that is not reasonable, unless we also start charging one full adult fare for luggage too large to fit in the overheads that ends up on seats.

Those three seats are only of use when the train is full[1]. In those cases no bicycles should be carried at all (at any price) as the space is required for passengers, and in that case it is more usefully used for standees.

[1] If longitudinal seats are what people *really* want maybe more LO style layouts should be used.

 

[318266]

Or just make it illegal to not move out of the way. This would not be an issue if we didn't have bike reservations and specific areas to store your bike.

 

[318266]

Albeit that's not really a good idea, it might work.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

How are the Intercity services both East & West Coasts & Crosscountry with bicycles, anyone have good experiences with them? I am considering taking my bike to Scotland for an trekking trip in the future.

 

[sefton]

No, that is not reasonable, unless we also start charging one full adult fare for luggage too large to fit in the overheads that ends up on seats.

Those three seats are only of use when the train is full[1]. In those cases no bicycles should be carried at all (at any price) as the space is required for passengers, and in that case it is more usefully used for standees.

[1] If longitudinal seats are what people *really* want maybe more LO style layouts should be used.

Sorry it is reasonable. If you want to use the space and make people stand then you should have to pay for the privilege. So make three people stand and pay for their tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How are the Intercity services both East & West Coasts & Crosscountry with bicycles, anyone have good experiences with them? I am considering taking my bike to Scotland for an trekking trip in the future.

For West Coast cycle reservations are compulsory (and they are very strict on this - you *will not* get away with just showing up) and dedicated areas are available on both Voyagers and Pendolinos which are not used for any other purpose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry it is reasonable. If you want to use the space and make people stand then you should have to pay for the privilege. So make three people stand and pay for their tickets.

It is incredibly unusual for a train to be loaded to precisely its seated capacity, so that is neither here nor there. Furthermore, you pay for travel, not a seat. If you pay for a seat, compulsory reservations should be introduced.

 

[318266]

I think he meant three more people, not just three people.

 

[sefton]

It is incredibly unusual for a train to be loaded to precisely its seated capacity, so that is neither here nor there. Furthermore, you pay for travel, not a seat. If you pay for a seat, compulsory reservations should be introduced.

So the bike owner should be offered the option.

You want to take the risk nobody is sitting in the bike seats then great your bike goes free, but if they are you don't travel.

If you want to guarantee to take your bike then pay for the inconvenience you are causing.

Your choice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think he meant three more people, not just three people.

I know what he meant.

Bicycles are not generally carried on peak services (and off peak services should not be overcrowded, though TOCs do seem to like doing this by not using their rolling stock properly). Therefore, typically, there will not be standees on most services on which bicycles are carried.

It is very unusual for the number of passengers on a train to equal precisely the seated capacity.

Therefore, those three seats are unlikely to be *needed* on trains where bicycles are permitted. Some people prefer them, but that is neither here nor there - I might prefer a priority seat (for the legroom) but I can't have one if someone needs it more than me.

 

[318266]

Or slap a label on them saying: ONLY IF THERE ARE NO MORE SEATS ON THE TRAIN

 

[Bletchleyite]

So the bike owner should be offered the option.

You want to take the risk nobody is sitting in the bike seats then great your bike goes free, but if they are you don't travel.

If you want to guarantee to take your bike then pay for the inconvenience you are causing.

Your choice.

I would be happy to take the risk that the train was not occupied in excess of the seated capacity minus 3 seats, yes, because it's really quite rare for a train to be occupied to precisely the seating capacity, and if there are a goodly number of standees bicycles should not be carried at all as the space is needed for standees. However, the rule should be that those seats are only available for occupation if and only if no other seats on the train are occupied, and if any other user for whom that space is intended boards (bicycle, pram or wheelchair user) that they must be vacated.

 

[318266]

Do you mean if there are no more seats avalible, you may take those 3 seats?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you mean if there are no more seats avalible, you may take those 3 seats?

Yes. Those seats should not be occupied unless EVERY other seat on the train is occupied, and if they are the occupier must move to another seat if a user requiring that space (a passenger with a wheelchair, pushchair or bicycle) wishes to board.

If people will not do the latter gracefully, then a good option on a guarded train would be that those seats are locked closed, only to be opened by the guard in the event of full occupation of all other seats on the train, and re-locked when such seats become available.

 

[318266]

That would make sense. Charge people a fine of £10 if they do not move out when someone with a bike reservation needs it.

 

[jopsuk]

The new GA Class 720s will have folding seats in the bike area, as they'll be maintaining the peak time ban on bikes on trains into Liverpool Street and have targets to meat with numbers of seats available.

Dafter will be that both the 5 car and 10 car varients will have the same number of bike spaces (officially four) so a formation of 2x5 car will have double the bike provision of a single 10 car.

 

[sefton]

Yes. Those seats should not be occupied unless EVERY other seat on the train is occupied, and if they are the occupier must move to another seat if a user requiring that space (a passenger with a wheelchair, pushchair or bicycle) wishes to board.

If people will not do the latter gracefully, then a good option on a guarded train would be that those seats are locked closed, only to be opened by the guard in the event of full occupation of all other seats on the train, and re-locked when such seats become available.

A daft Idea, there is not a cat in hell's chance the guard would ever bother to unlock them, no matter how crowded the train.

If the train is empty then there is no issue taking a bike.

If the train is so busy taking a bike will cause an inconvenience then they should have to pay a sufficiently large fee to discourage people doing so.

 

[sefton]

That would make sense. Charge people a fine of £10 if they do not move out when someone with a bike reservation needs it.

And change the bike owner £100 for making that provision. Train companies should charge people for the service they use.

 

[318266]

They shouldn't be locked.

 

[318266]

Or have a door that will not open unless there is no seats left on the train or you present a bike reservation to the guard and he unlocks the door.

 

[sefton]

Or have a door that will not open unless there is no seats left on the train or you present a bike reservation to the guard and he unlocks the door.

Perhaps this could be a van at the back of the train.