Biden Infrastructure Program and Amtrak

[Chris125]

Regarding Brightline, AIUI they've been busy installing PTC so Covid was more of a useful excuse while that was sorted and they finish off the extension to Orlando. They are busy with plans for Tampa and IIRC think they've got more trainsets under construction too?

 

[Jozhua]

That's probably true in the long term, assuming the funding to keep the service going is guaranteed, as it moreorless is in the UK but not necessarily in the US where Amtrak relies on the whim of the federal government at the time and a patchwork of states. In that sort of short term environment there may be no alternative to trying to do the best possible with whatever infrastructure improvements can be afforded and delivered quickly.

Alon Levy (linked above) has done some demand modelling based on population and distance, to identify the cities in the USA that might be worth linking by high speed rail.

Unfortunately, the Democrats are missing an opportunity to take the lead and create something people will care about keeping.

I'm sure many UK Conservatives behind the scenes malign rail, but while they drag their heels over funding for it, they wouldn't get away with slashing it the way the Feds seem to do in the US. The counterbalance to that is the states, which is why it is so important state governments co-operate, especially across borders with each other. It may be worth states creating their own plans for intercity rail within them, then asking the feds for funding. If a few states decided to work together on improving their shared Amtrak service, I'm sure they'd easily be able to do so.

My personal thoughts is they could save a bunch of money just giving the army some shovels and using that labour, might as well put it to work! Get the B-52's to drop some bombs to make the cuttings and use tanks to flatten out the land. The Republicans (and many Democrats) love spending tons of money on the millitary, even in peacetime, so might as well put that to work!

Regarding Brightline, AIUI they've been busy installing PTC so Covid was more of a useful excuse while that was sorted and they finish off the extension to Orlando. They are busy with plans for Tampa and IIRC think they've got more trainsets under construction too?

That's good to hear. Gives some hope that Brightline should be sucessful going forward! Any idea of when they plan to restart service and then when the extension to Orlando will open?

 

[ainsworth74]

An article from CNN on the Amtrak and it possibly finally having it's moment in the sun:

(CNN) — Created in 1971 from the creaking remains of the classic US railroads that helped build modern America, Amtrak has often lived a precarious existence.

Subject to the whims of politicians in Washington D.C. and constantly under pressure from the well-funded and hugely influential oil, automotive and airline industry lobbies, the national passenger rail operator has been threatened with oblivion on several occasions.

But as it celebrates a 50th anniversary that few would have been brave enough to predict, there are signs that Amtrak's moment may finally have arrived.

The United States remains firmly wedded to the automobile and the sheer size of the nation means that air travel is often the only option for long-distance journeys.

Yet dotted across the country are numerous routes where population density and distances make rail a viable option -- and a social necessity.

That's not news -- those routes have existed since the earliest days of the railroads. What is novel is the renewed enthusiasm of Americans for commuting or taking long-distance leisure trips by train.

What is most significant right now is the presence of a passionate Amtrak advocate in the White House.

President Joe Biden, a long-time rail commuter rejoicing in the nickname "Amtrak Joe," is calling on Congress to invest $80 billion in the rail network.

This massive chunk of change is needed to address Amtrak's repair backlog; modernize the flagship Northeast Corridor; improve existing corridors, create new intercity connections; and enhance grant and loan programs that support passenger and freight rail safety, efficiency and electrification.

Continues...

America's Amtrak moment could finally be here

Fifty years after the first Amtrak train left the station on the creaking remains of America's nation-building rail network, the country's neglected rail service could at last be on track to move into the modern era as President Joe Biden seeks to inject a massive dose of funding to revitalize...

edition.cnn.com

Also happy birthday to Amtrak, fifty years old today

 

[Backroom_boy]

Regarding Brightline, AIUI they've been busy installing PTC so Covid was more of a useful excuse while that was sorted and they finish off the extension to Orlando. They are busy with plans for Tampa and IIRC think they've got more trainsets under construction too?

Hopefully they'll resume operations before the Orlando extension is completed; that looks at a guess to be at least 18 months away

 

[nlogax]

Good summary from The Post of where things currently stand with the NEC. Some other bits of the line's infrastructure up for potential renewal or replacement with alternatives including the B&P tunnel alternative under Baltimore which appears as 'shovel-ready' as things can get without actually having any budget to get started.

 

[Jozhua]

Good summary from The Post of where things currently stand with the NEC. Some other bits of the line's infrastructure up for potential renewal or replacement with alternatives including the B&P tunnel alternative under Baltimore which appears as 'shovel-ready' as things can get without actually having any budget to get started.

Obviously the NEC is in desperate need of investment, but old tunnels, etc are not unique to the US.

It appears that over the years there have been poor standards of maintainence. Now, I understand Sandy caused significant damage to the Hudson river tunnels, but it does seem like more consistent inspection and engineering work has to be done in general. There needs to be leadership who is willing to take the hit on inconveniencing travellers for periods of potentially months, in order to get on top of the maintainence backlog and carry out renewals. For example, I was significantly inconvenienced by the works at Derby station back in 2018, but now absolutely see the night and day difference in reliability and speed it has brought about.

The UK has done a fairly good job with lower levels of investment than our European neighbours and stop-start funding (especially for capital projects). Probably best to learn some lessons!

To me it seems speeding up and de-congesting the slow parts is a priority over speeding up the fast parts. Increasing a 20mph to a 40mph is a doubling in speed vs 12% from 160-180mph. Improvements should be made that offer the most cost effective journey time improvements for all passengers. That being said, I recognise that if the upgrades for 125-150 are just replacing some jointed track with welded rail, then absolutely go ahead, but getting any decent amount of the corridor to 186mph speeds seems better for marketing than service improvement. The UK does pretty well with 125mph, but we now have ridership and growth to support creating dedicated HSR anyway (HS1,2 & 3), and a network that is already being utilised to its fullest practical potential.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the way federal grants work in the US, it's much easier to get funding for new projects than for maintaining what is there today. It's also much more electorally beneficial to the politicians who make these decisions. I believe the Biden administration is trying to shape the infrastructure package to avoid certain states spending most of their allocation on new highway projects.

 

[Jozhua]

I believe the way federal grants work in the US, it's much easier to get funding for new projects than for maintaining what is there today. It's also much more electorally beneficial to the politicians who make these decisions. I believe the Biden administration is trying to shape the infrastructure package to avoid certain states spending most of their allocation on new highway projects.

Hopefully. Highways are popular but almost always a terrible investment. - it's crazy to see how American cities compared with an equivalent sized UK one, have giant highways and worse traffic.

Public transport, where done right, really does provide the best ROI

 

[Austriantrain]

Hopefully. Highways are popular but almost always a terrible investment. - it's crazy to see how American cities compared with an equivalent sized UK one, have giant highways and worse traffic.

Public transport, where done right, really does provide the best ROI

A very interesting blog in this context:

Data is Overrated

Ten years ago I blogged that smartphones would not have a revolutionary effect on public transportation. I think the trend since then has vindicated me – routing apps have not had visible imp…

pedestrianobservations.com

 

[nlogax]

Finally a bipartisan agreement to get a deal of some sorts over the line. Much smaller than originally anticipated, $1.2trillion over the next twelve years, of which $579billion is 'new spend'. Of that, $66 billion will go to rail.

It remains to be seen how that will be divvied up but I'm sure that detail is out there somewhere.

 

[cle]

Finally a bipartisan agreement to get a deal of some sorts over the line. Much smaller than originally anticipated, $1.2trillion over the next twelve years, of which $579billion is 'new spend'. Of that, $66 billion will go to rail.

It remains to be seen how that will be divvied up but I'm sure that detail is out there somewhere.

In addition to transit. Biden has been smart by merging passenger rail with freight, which is a lot more Republican-friendly.

The B&P and Gateway tunnels have already advanced in red tape with him in office, plus the Cal HS budget reconciliation - progress!

 

[edwin_m]

In addition to transit. Biden has been smart by merging passenger rail with freight, which is a lot more Republican-friendly.

The B&P and Gateway tunnels have already advanced in red tape with him in office, plus the Cal HS budget reconciliation - progress!

B&P? Can't see anything this might stand for in the last few posts.

Merging passenger rail with freight suggests there could be further battles to be fought before anything much happens, while they decide how much goes to which.

 

[stuu]

B&P? Can't see anything this might stand for in the last few posts.

Merging passenger rail with freight suggests there could be further battles to be fought before anything much happens, while they decide how much goes to which.

Baltimore and Potomac. A very old (by US standards) tunnel under Baltimore which is to be replaced by a new tunnel which will provide more capacity and much higher speed

 

[edwin_m]

Baltimore and Potomac. A very old (by US standards) tunnel under Baltimore which is to be replaced by a new tunnel which will provide more capacity and much higher speed

Thanks for that - rather relieved it's something I've never heard of (though I must have passed through about ten times, many years back), not something obvious I was missing!

 

[nlogax]

Thanks for that - rather relieved it's something I've never heard of (though I must have passed through about ten times, many years back), not something obvious I was missing!

See post #95 for context.

 

[Jozhua]

Lol $66bn for rail is an absolute joke. 50% of that is probably going to be spent on the NEC...

"Neither side got everything they wanted in this deal. That's what it means to compromise and it reflects something important: it reflects consensus," Biden said.

The Democrats are so bad at negotiating it actually hurts. Democrats go: "we want 50% of the infrastructure funding to go to rail", Republicans respond: "we want 100% to go to roads" and the Democrats go: "COMPRIMISE! how about 99% to roads, 1% to rail?", the Republicans respond: "Hmm. let me think about it...", Democrats: "okay, 99.5%", Republicans: "hmm", Democrats: "99.9%!", Republicans: "Hmm, okay I guess.".

Then the Democrats have the nerve to go "neither side got everything they wanted, nice to see us comprimise"... what an absolutely useless party. They only get elected because they're not the Republicans.

 

[stuu]

Lol $66bn for rail is an absolute joke. 50% of that is probably going to be spent on the NEC...

Given there are very few other proposals that are anything more than crayons on a map, its not really surprising that most will go to the NEC. Anything new will take years to get through planning, certainly until after the next election, and without at least some bipartisan support there is no point aiming any higher

 

[edwin_m]

Most of Amtrak's other proposals are probably more a matter of operating revenue support than capital funding.

 

[Jozhua]

Given there are very few other proposals that are anything more than crayons on a map, its not really surprising that most will go to the NEC. Anything new will take years to get through planning, certainly until after the next election, and without at least some bipartisan support there is no point aiming any higher

Yeah, I mean it's not like States need to wait on the feds to crack on with projects. - that said, where the fed goes states will somewhat follow, at least if they politically lean the way the feds do at the time.

The republicans are pretty strongly anti-transit (at least publically funded, despite highways also being publiclally funded) so even in Texas I feel like we're unlikely to see any fed money going into connecting that state by rail, despite the growing population. If the republicans were looking long term, they might find it beneficial to at least support it at a token level, to maybe appeal to some liberals, like the conservative government does here, while actually not doing much, if anything, substantiative. But to be fair, projects like Hyperloop already fulfill that role, acting as a fluff piece for politicians to avoid real investment in transit.

I'd like to see Cascades, some stuff in California, Colorado or connecting cities surrounding Chicagoland with faster and more frequent intercity rail.