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'Big Boy' banks a real freight train

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It appears that the other day restored 'Big Boy' no. 4014 was out on the main line somewhere in Nebraska when it was called upon to assist a stalled freight train. There are various videos on YouTube, including for example this one:

Here there are clips from the same video with commentary from someone who appears to know what he's talking about.
 
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ac6000cw

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Thanks for that :smile:

Maybe one of UP's customers might twist their arm one day to repeat the 'Challenger hauls 143 car double-stack train' publicity run for American President Lines in 1990, but using 'Big Boy' instead?

(Search for 'UP Challenger #3985 + 143 Freight Cars' on YouTube, if anyone hasn't seen it)
 

ainsworth74

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Maybe one of UP's customers might twist their arm one day to repeat the 'Challenger hauls 143 car double-stack train' publicity run for American President Lines in 1990, but using 'Big Boy' instead?
I was thinking exactly the same thing! We can only hope!

(Search for 'UP Challenger #3985 + 143 Freight Cars' on YouTube, if anyone hasn't seen it)
It is a most excellent video:

 

ainsworth74

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-Wow-. I'm not one for kettles but damn, that is a great clip. 3985 is an absolute beast.
Isn't it? There's very few railway related videos I come back to but that's absolutely one of them. We desperately need someone to sort out Big Boy doing the same thing.
 

ac6000cw

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I'm not one for kettles but damn, that is a great clip. 3985 is an absolute beast.
I'm basically in the same boat (Mostly I prefer the noise of big diesels over steam). But I decided I had to experience 'Big Boy' in the metal when it visited the LA area back in 2019 - just standing alongside looking at the huge firebox, cylinders, bearings and rods was worth it, let alone seeing it running (my videos):

 

nlogax

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just standing alongside looking at the huge firebox, cylinders, bearings and rods was worth it, let alone seeing it running (my videos):

Great videos especially that Cajon Pass climb. Ascending Cajon is taxing enough for diesels alone! Were those two GP40s assisting at all or just along for the ride?
 

Lucan

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The USA looks like a great place for trackside photography.
 

ac6000cw

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Were those two GP40s assisting at all or just along for the ride?
They weren't GP40's - the front diesel is an SD70ACe and behind it is an ES44AC, both 6-axle, around 4400hp and 195 tonnes each.

Yes, they were assisting on the climb up Cajon - if you count the passenger/baggage/tool cars, there's 20 of them (and US cars are heavy, probably a minimum of 60-70 tonnes each) plus 2 diesels plus Big Boy plus 2 extra tenders.

Just the motive power alone (including tenders) is getting on for 1000 tonnes, then there's maybe 1200 - 1500 tonnes of cars behind it, and you're wanting to climb the 2.2% gradients of Cajon at the allowable passenger train speed.

As far as I know, Big Boys and Challengers weren't normally used on passenger trains - they would more likely have been in the hands of UPs big 4-8-4s (like #844 that's never been retired by UP), but they would have been assisted up Cajon.
 

ac6000cw

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I never properly got to grips with recognising US traction types beyond 'bloody hell, that looks industrial' :D
It's not that hard at a basic level for freight locos - I tend to look first at the radiators, which are quite different shapes on EMD/Progress Rail and GE/Wabtec locos. If it's 4-axle (Bo-Bo) power then it's most likely EMD GPxx ('Geeps') as 4-axle GE locos are relatively rare these days (passenger locos excepted). Also 4-axle locos are mostly used on local freight and yard work rather than line-haul freight.

Pretty much, if it's a major railroad line-haul freight train today, it's very likely to be all 6-axle power, with GE ET44/ES44/AC4400/C44-9W more common than EMD SD70/SD60. Anything older than those are much rarer.
 

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Soon as I saw that video in the OP pop up in my recommended bar a few days ago, one of the first things I thought was: 'There will be a thread on RUK Fourms about this' and lo and behold... ;) I was grinning like a idiot watching the second clip #4014 banking the train over the crossing, losing and then regaining grip in her leading driving wheels. In absence of her actually pulling a long heavy freighter (so far), I'll relish her pushing a stalled one!

Maybe one of UP's customers might twist their arm one day to repeat the 'Challenger hauls 143 car double-stack train' publicity run for American President Lines in 1990, but using 'Big Boy' instead?
Surprised it hasn't happened already quite honestly. But yes, one of UP's customers needs to twist their arm and repeat it with #4014 already.

It is a most excellent video:

Possibly my favourite steam clip of all time (I say this as a lad who prefers diesels). Pure, unabashed muscle and that thunderous, flat out exhaust sends chills right up the back (to the point the whistle being pulled at 0:41 is almost drowned out). Doing what she was designed and built to do, even if the sight of a steam-hauled intermodal is a odd one.

I don't often go back and watch the same railway videos multiple times, but this one is one of the rare exceptions. I wonder what went through the heads of the crew of that diesel-hauled consist coming the other way when they saw #3985 sweep around that bend with her double-stack intermodal in tow, whether or not they knew she was coming! No doubt, they saw her exhaust column first!

The UP isn't the only US railroad to have used restored steam locos on normal freight work: the Norfolk Southern used the then-recently returned to steam Norfolk & Western A class 2-6-6-4 #1218 on a 100-car coal train in 1987, in what was one of the highlights of her all too brief excursion career (1987-1991):

 
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ac6000cw

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The UP isn't the only US railroad to have used restored steam locos on normal freight work: the Norfolk Southern used the then-recently returned to steam Norfolk & Western A class 2-6-6-4 #1218 on a 100-car coal train in 1987,
...and that isn't even a 'heavy-haul' loco, it was designed as a fast-freight loco with 70 inch drivers (the Challenger had 69 inch and Big Boy 68 inch drivers, so essentially the same).

The N&W 'heavy-haul' equivalent were the 2-8-8-2 compound 'Y' series Mallets like the Y6 with 58 inch drivers and over 700kN of tractive effort (more than a Big Boy) - one of them could apparently handle 100 coal cars in the mountains (with assistance from another one on the worst gradients), then when the trains reached the flat coastal plain, two trains would be combined into a 200 car train hauled by a single 'Y' east to the port at Norfolk, VA. That's real economical steam heavy-haul, 1940's style...

Now a lineside seat for pair of Y6's pulling and pushing a coal train upgrade is definitely a candidate for a time machine wish list :smile: (even though I'm mostly a diesel fan!)
 

Strathclyder

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...and that isn't even a 'heavy-haul' loco, it was designed as a fast-freight loco with 70 inch drivers (the Challenger had 69 inch and Big Boy 68 inch drivers, so essentially the same).

The N&W 'heavy-haul' equivalent were the 2-8-8-2 compound 'Y' series Mallets like the Y6 with 58 inch drivers and over 700kN of tractive effort (more than a Big Boy) - one of them could apparently handle 100 coal cars in the mountains (with assistance from another one on the worst gradients), then when the trains reached the flat coastal plain, two trains would be combined into a 200 car train hauled by a single 'Y' east to the port at Norfolk, VA. That's real economical steam heavy-haul, 1940's style...

Now a lineside seat for pair of Y6's pulling and pushing a coal train upgrade is definitely a candidate for a time machine wish list :smile: (even though I'm mostly a diesel fan!)
Too right, just the description of two giant N&W Y6s assaulting a steep grade with a fully loaded coal train makes me wish time travel was a thing; one of many US steam locos I wish I could have seen in their prime: UP Challengers/Big Boys, N&W As & Y6s, SP Cab-Forwards, C&O H-8s, to name a few (I'm also a diesel fan as noted above).
 

62484GlenLyon

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count me in for the time machine to witness a coal train in the hands of tnt Y6s. I know direct comparison isn't easy across traction types but the 700kN of the Y6 puts the 400kN of the class 92 in the shade (as per the Platform 5 pocket book).
 

ac6000cw

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I know direct comparison isn't easy across traction types but the 700kN of the Y6 puts the 400kN of the class 92 in the shade (as per the Platform 5 pocket book).
A modern US diesel loco with AC traction drives e.g. ES44AC or SD70ACe will beat the Y6 low-speed tractive effort but not the power at higher speeds.

One of my namesake 6000hp diesel locos would be a close match in theory, but they've basically been-and-gone in the US. China has a sizeable fleet of their equivalent HXN5 (albeit somewhat lighter so the low-speed tractive effort is below a Y6).

As for diesels working on the Y6's old stomping ground, this is what went past me ten years ago on the eastbound 1.4% climb to Elkhorn tunnel (in the mist and rain...). 2 x SD70ACe at the front, 2 x ES44AC at the rear:

 

eldomtom2

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A modern US diesel loco with AC traction drives e.g. ES44AC or SD70ACe will beat the Y6 low-speed tractive effort but not the power at higher speeds.
Of course I presume that's just one loco - one of the key advantages of diesel/electric traction over steam is that multiple locomotives can be controlled from a single cab.
 

ac6000cw

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Of course I presume that's just one loco -
Yes - an ES44AC is rated at approx. 740kN continuous, 810kN max. The 30+ tonne axle load helps a quite a bit with that...

one of the key advantages of diesel/electric traction over steam is that multiple locomotives can be controlled from a single cab.
Err, yes of course.

Having that was a necessity for the early US mainline diesels in order to match the power of a large, modern steam loco.

In 1939, the seminal EMD 'FT' demonstrator was a set of four 1350hp Bo-Bo units linked by semi-permanent couplers (an A-B-B-A set - the A's have cabs). That gave 5400hp and more low-speed tractive effort (around 980kN starting, 710kN continuous) than the biggest steam locos in the US at the time plus dynamic braking as well. The performance, lower servicing costs and higher availability meant EMD sold nearly a thousand FT A & B units by 1945 despite wartime production restrictions (they would have sold a lot more if they had been allowed to), and about 1900 of the successor F2 & F3 models by 1949. After the early FT's, the semi-permanent couplers were abandoned in favour of normal AAR couplers and MU connections, but 'unit' has survived as a term for US diesel locos (so a train might have a 'four-unit consist' on the front - or a 'lash-up' if it's a mixed bag of whatever was kicking around the yard...).
 
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