Bikes on buses.

[londonbridge]

Are there any rules regarding taking non-folding bicycles onto a bus, specifically TFL buses? Saw an incident earlier today, a guy put a bike in the wheelchair/buggy space. Driver said it wasn’t allowed and told him to leave. Guy refused, driver refused to move the bus, it turned into a standoff with the guy verbally abusing other passengers and telling the driver that “it’s not doing any harm there, just get on with your f….ng job and drive the f…ing bus, I’ve paid my f…ing fare”. Driver radioed control and then the police, bus was still parked up at the stop 15 minutes later when my bus arrived so I didn’t see any further.

 

[GusB]

Transport for London's terms and conditions allow folding bikes to be carried.

9.4 You may bring with you:
• personal possessions and luggage that you are able to carry yourself (including on stairs and
escalators)
• folding buggies, folding bicycles and scooters (excluding electric scooters) that you are able to
carry yourself (including on stairs and escalators)
• any other item, provided it is not dangerous or likely to injure anyone.

You may be asked to fold your buggy, bicycle and/or scooter.

So it would appear that the driver was within their rights to refuse.

 

[Dai Corner]

Is a bicycle 'dangerous or likely to injure anyone'?

 

[py_megapixel]

Is a bicycle 'dangerous or likely to injure anyone'?

If it's just dumped in the wheelchair space and not secured to anything, then yes. Imagine if the bus was involved in a collision - the rapid deceleration could easily throw the bike onto the floor, where it would hinder passengers evacuating.

 

[Dai Corner]

If it's just dumped in the wheelchair space and not secured to anything, then yes. Imagine if the bus was involved in a collision - the rapid deceleration could easily throw the bike onto the floor, where it would hinder passengers evacuating.

Not if it's folded though.

 

[py_megapixel]

Not if it's folded though.

No - then it's just like a small suitcase or any other similar piece of luggage. I was assuming you were talking about non-folding ones though as that's what the OP refers to.

 

[Dai Corner]

No - then it's just like a small suitcase or any other similar piece of luggage. I was assuming you were talking about non-folding ones though as that's what the OP refers to.

Have you seen the bikes which just fold in half, with the two wheels next to each other? They'd be allowed under the above rules.

Even a suitcase-sized folded up bicycle could fly around and hit somebody or form a trip hazard.

I'm trying to illustrate the illogicality of the rules.

 

[AnyFile]

The last point

any other item, provided it is not dangerous or likely to injure anyone.

is actually, at least in my opinion, ambiguous. Who is suppose to decide if an item is dangerous or likely to injure? The passenger, the driver or the directors?

Strangely enough I can not find a line (at lest in the part I have read) that says that the passenger is responsible for any damages caused by the item transported by yourself.

The following point of the Conditions says

9.5 You must not bring with you anything that:
• is more than 2 metres long
• you are unable to carry yourself (including on stairs and escalators)
• is hazardous or inflammable
• is likely to cause injury or obstruct other customers or staff
• is likely to cause damage to buses, trams, trains or stations.

I would think that something which is 2 metres long is actually a little bit of hindrance especially when the person who is carrying it needs to make a turn.

I think that one of the problems about transporting bicycles on a bus, as well as a risk factor, is that if this is allowed on the ground that there is the space for one bicycle, than there will be not enough space if several passengers are boarding each on with a bicycle.

 

[hexagon789]

Surely the main issue was where the person wanted to put the bike - in the wheelchair/pram space, namely because as I understand they are neither for luggage nor bikes

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that one of the problems about transporting bicycles on a bus, as well as a risk factor, is that if this is allowed on the ground that there is the space for one bicycle, than there will be not enough space if several passengers are boarding each on with a bicycle.

No different from a train.

Bikes on urban buses are of very limited benefit, though, as typically one can cycle faster than the bus. They might be useful if you got a puncture, I suppose. For what it's worth, Hamburg allowed bikes on all buses when I lived there in the late 90s, and I think I saw a bike on a bus all of once in the year I was there, and was never in a position when I wanted to take mine on a bus (though I took it on the train lots of times).

Bikes on regional buses are useful, on the other hand, just like trains, because they allow a journey that isn't quite offered by public transport to be done with cycling at both ends. One of the losses from the Oxford-Bedford X5 switching to buses rather than coaches is that they are no longer carried. On the coaches you were allowed to put them underneath.

 

[Robertj21a]

The example is a NON folding bike. Who would even dream of taking one of those on board a bus.
In any event, no bike (or luggage) should go in the wheelchair bay.

 

[Dai Corner]

The example is a NON folding bike. Who would even dream of taking one of those on board a bus.
In any event, no bike (or luggage) should go in the wheelchair bay.

I was on a bus last summer (not in TfL land) when a Uber Eats / Deliveroo or similar bicycle courier was allowed to bring his bike on. It only folded in half rather than to suitcase size and was carried in the wheelchair space. He stood or sat next to and held on to it throughout the journey. No wheelchair passenger wanted to board so I don't know what would have happened in that case.

 

[hexagon789]

The example is a NON folding bike. Who would even dream of taking one of those on board a bus.

A fool

In any event, no bike (or luggage) should go in the wheelchair bay.

Exactly, same goes for trains.

No wheelchair passenger wanted to board so I don't know what would have happened in that case.

As far as I'm aware since the law was tightened wheelchair users have absolute priority, so they would legally be required to vacate the space.

Whether they did or whether the driver would make them is another matter.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

From personal experience in Glasgow kids bikes are allowed but for adults it's folding bikes only and I have seen drivers refuse travel to bikes multiple times. One exception was a guy who's chain had broken and the driver let him on

 

[station_road]

I was surprised to see recently that TrentBarton say on their website that you can take bikes onboard, although their conditions of carriage say not and its not clear what you should do if a wheelchair user boards after you - I have never seen anyone bring a bike onboard

TrentBarton FAQs

Can I bring my bike on the bus? Again, if there is room for a bike we’re more than happy to accommodate it. We’d ask that you keep the bike secure and look after it, and if a buggy or person in a wheelchair got on, we’d ask you to vacate the area for these customers please.

 

[Steelwheels]

Concerning folding bikes (I am the owner of a Brompton) the official ruling is especially on most rail operators is that the bike should be covered up thus avoiding any other passengers catching themselves on potential sharp edges of said folding bike. I have only seen one folding bike on a bus and that was a Brompton (not in a cover) on a Warringtons Own Buses vehicle.

 

[GusB]

A fool



Exactly, same goes for trains.



As far as I'm aware since the law was tightened wheelchair users have absolute priority, so they would legally be required to vacate the space.

Whether they did or whether the driver would make them is another matter.

Why is someone who wishes to take their bike on board a fool? Some companies actually have buses that are specifically equipped to carry bikes.

I don't honestly see a problem provided that the space isn't occupied to exclude someone in a wheelchair or with a buggy and provided that the bike is placed so that it's not going to be a danger to anyone.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The last point

is actually, at least in my opinion, ambiguous. Who is suppose to decide if an item is dangerous or likely to injure? The passenger, the driver or the directors?

Strangely enough I can not find a line (at lest in the part I have read) that says that the passenger is responsible for any damages caused by the item transported by yourself.

The following point of the Conditions says


I would think that something which is 2 metres long is actually a little bit of hindrance especially when the person who is carrying it needs to make a turn.

I think that one of the problems about transporting bicycles on a bus, as well as a risk factor, is that if this is allowed on the ground that there is the space for one bicycle, than there will be not enough space if several passengers are boarding each on with a bicycle.

My standard bicycle with 28" wheels is 185 cm long. Just measured it because I want to get a shorter one . I guess very few cycles are 2m or more, except cargo bikes.

 

[Geordie driver]

Some of the replies on here make me wonder if some of you have ever been on a bus.

If the bus is specifically designed to have room to carry a full size bike and it's in the rules, fine. I have never driven a bus so designed.

If it's not, and you insist that, for some reason, you are special and these things don't count for you to the point where the police are called, you are a fool.

Drivers seen permitting bikes against the rules will be in trouble should someone choose to complain, and the way the world is today, someone will complain.

If someone told me to drive the F....ing bus they become a pedestrian. Or a cyclist in this case. Why people think it is ok to swear at bus drivers is beyond me, they wouldn't speak to me outside of work like that. At least, not without serious consequences.

 

[alphabravo43]

Some of the replies on here make me wonder if some of you have ever been on a bus.

If the bus is specifically designed to have room to carry a full size bike and it's in the rules, fine. I have never driven a bus so designed.

If it's not, and you insist that, for some reason, you are special and these things don't count for you to the point where the police are called, you are a fool.

Drivers seen permitting bikes against the rules will be in trouble should someone choose to complain, and the way the world is today, someone will complain.

If someone told me to drive the F....ing bus they become a pedestrian. Or a cyclist in this case. Why people think it is ok to swear at bus drivers is beyond me, they wouldn't speak to me outside of work like that. At least, not without serious consequences.

I can’t find an interior shot at the moment but the Borders Buses running from Edinburgh to the Borders on the X95 and X62 have designed bikes racks inside the bus.

11901 - SK19ELV

Seen on Princes Street is one of three new bike-carrying Alexander Dennis Enviro 400MMC bodied Dennis Tridents in the fleet of Borders Buses. Seen here is 11901 - SK19ELV.

flic.kr

 

[hexagon789]

Why is someone who wishes to take their bike on board a fool? Some companies actually have buses that are specifically equipped to carry bikes.

Someone who takes one against the rules when it is an extremely common policy among bus operators to only permit finding bikes.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

It's commonplace in certain US cities for buses to carry bikes on an external rack. Every bus in Portland, for example, has a rack on the front: https://trimet.org/bikes/bikesonbuses.htm

First trialled this in Bath but the ever retrograde DVSA said no: https://walkridebath.org.uk/2015/06/04/front-of-bus-cycle-racks-the-dvsa-says-no/

 

[Lucan]

Why the heck would anyone want to take a bike on a London bus? I can get around London quicker by bike than when I drive a car, let alone a bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why the heck would anyone want to take a bike on a London bus? I can get around London quicker by bike than when I drive a car, let alone a bus.

That's what I found in Hamburg - it was allowed but basically nobody ever actually did.

Regional buses filling gaps in the railway are a different game.

 

[philthetube]

If the driver says no to a bike, or anything else then no it is. A company may have rules and may tell a driver what/who to carry but at the moment the driver has absolute discretion.

 

[InOban]

I can’t find an interior shot at the moment but the Borders Buses running from Edinburgh to the Borders on the X95 and X62 have designed bikes racks inside the bus.

11901 - SK19ELV

Seen on Princes Street is one of three new bike-carrying Alexander Dennis Enviro 400MMC bodied Dennis Tridents in the fleet of Borders Buses. Seen here is 11901 - SK19ELV.

flic.kr

Are these brand new or converted from Lothian skylink buses which had a large luggage space where I assume the bike rack is now?

 

[Adtrainsam]

Outside London, some buses have dedicated spaces for bikes, with ways to secure the bike in its place. I believe this is opposite the wheelchair space in most cases.
Go North East and East Yorkshire have had them on their new Enviro 400 MMC double deckers since 2020 and hold up to 2 non-folding bikes. There's even a guarantee that if the bike spaces are full, they will arrange for a taxi to pick you up at no additional cost! See here: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/bike-buses

 

[alphabravo43]

Are these brand new or converted from Lothian skylink buses which had a large luggage space where I assume the bike rack is now?

No, brand new to Borders Buses, they’re a completely separate entity to Lothian, they’re part of the West Coast Motors Group

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

No, brand new to Borders Buses, they’re a completely separate entity to Lothian, they’re part of the West Coast Motors Group

They have the E200MMCs as well with space for 2 bikes, the E400MMCs can carry 4 bikes.

 

[Geordie driver]

It's commonplace in certain US cities for buses to carry bikes on an external rack. Every bus in Portland, for example, has a rack on the front: https://trimet.org/bikes/bikesonbuses.htm

First trialled this in Bath but the ever retrograde DVSA said no: https://walkridebath.org.uk/2015/06/04/front-of-bus-cycle-racks-the-dvsa-says-no/

Given the propensity for the British public to step out in front of buses without looking, I think we are some years off having bike racks and bicycles hanging off the front end on UK urban bus services.