Birmingham - Brighton: via High Wycombe vs via Kensington Olympia

[dvboy]

With reference to the following fares...

SVR OFF-PEAK R 2C KENSNGTN OLYMPIA SOUTHERN NO £47.70 £23.85
OPR SUPER OFFPEAK R PV ✠VIA HIGH WYCOMBE CHILTERN RAILWAYS YES £45.00 £22.50
http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=0418&dest=BTN&rlc=

...is it possible to travel outwards on the one fare and excess to the other to return, and if so, how much would the excess be (I assume zero if the outward is via High Wycombe)

Can anyone suggest any better fares than the above for the same journey - going to Brighton Saturday morning the 1st and with the flexibility to return either the same evening as late as possible, or the day after (Sun 2nd)

 

[calc7]

Returning same day can be done for £30:

Birmingham Stns - London Terminals, Super Off-Peak Return (LM Only) £20
----walk down Euston Road----
London St Pancras - Brighton, Super Off-Peak Day Return (FCC Only) £10

 

[yorkie]

A change of route excess (in one direction) is half the difference in fares. Most (but not all) guards know how to issue excess fares correctly. Some ticket office staff also do, but not as many in my experience, knowledge varies hugely by TOC and area (e.g. East Coast are generally excellent except KGX which is awful; Virgin are variable with generally better service up north rather than Euston or the Midlands, with problems identified at Wolves and Coventry).

Also some staff incorrectly believe that, for a change of route excess, the ticket type must be the same. This is a myth and The Manual makes it absolutely clear that the excess is to the appropriate fare (for an example of excessing an Anytime into a Super Off Peak from The Manual see this post).

The excess is also the same fare on board. There is no penalty for a change of route excess on board. Railcard discounts are applied providing the original ticket is discounted.

 

[dvboy]

I'm looking at the latest possible Saturday journeys on each type of ticket at the moment:

dep Brighton 1949
arr Victoria 2040
Underground connection
dep Euston 2128 (LM)
arr Bham NS 0004
requires LM only ticket (Bhm-Eus)

dep Brighton 1919
arr Victoria 2010
Underground connection
dep Marylebone 2100
arr Bham SH 2309
requires via High Wycombe ticket

dep Brighton 1919
arr Clapham J 2002
dep Clapham J 2025
arr Watford J 2109
dep Watford J 2118
arr Bham NS 2248
requires via Kensington Olympia ticket

dep Brighton 1949
arr Clapham J 2032
dep Clapham J 2044
arr Willesden 2015
dep Willesden 2111
arr Watford J 2144
dep Watford J 2158
arr Bham NS 2325
requires via Kensington Olympia ticket

dep Brighton 2311
arr London Br 0021
dep Euston 0110
arr Bham NS 0234
requires Any Permitted ticket
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A change of route excess (in one direction) is half the difference in fares. Most (but not all) guards know how to issue excess fares correctly. Some ticket office staff also do, but not as many in my experience, knowledge varies hugely by TOC and area (e.g. East Coast are generally excellent except KGX which is awful; Virgin are variable with generally better service up north rather than Euston or the Midlands, with problems identified at Wolves and Coventry).

Also some staff incorrectly believe that, for a change of route excess, the ticket type must be the same. This is a myth and The Manual makes it absolutely clear that the excess is to the appropriate fare (for an example of excessing an Anytime into a Super Off Peak from The Manual see this post).

The excess is also the same fare on board. There is no penalty for a change of route excess on board. Railcard discounts are applied providing the original ticket is discounted.

So if I went down on a via High Wycombe ticket at £45 and wanted to come back on the last possible service mentioned above, the upgrade would be £11.10, as half the difference from an Any Permitted fare of £67.20?

 

[34D]

Is wembley central to wembley stadium a valid walking route, and if so is the High Wycombe fare valid via Stonebridge Park? That would surely allow you to go through both places you wish to.

 

[yorkie]

Is wembley central to wembley stadium a valid walking route....

No, that is not a recognised interchange.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So if I went down on a via High Wycombe ticket at £45 and wanted to come back on the last possible service mentioned above, the upgrade would be £11.10, as half the difference from an Any Permitted fare of £67.20?

Yes, that's correct

 

[dvboy]

Would the following be valid on a via Kensington Olympia ticket?

dep Brighton 2149
arr Clapham J 2232
dep Clapham J 2244
arr Willesden J 2305
dep Willesen J 2322
arr Euston 2341
dep Euston 0010
arr Bham NS 0139

It seems the last few VT services out of Euston don't call at Watford J.

 

[yorkie]

Would the following be valid on a via Kensington Olympia ticket?

dep Brighton 2149
arr Clapham J 2232
dep Clapham J 2244
arr Willesden J 2305
dep Willesen J 2322
arr Euston 2341
dep Euston 0010
arr Bham NS 0139

It seems the last few VT services out of Euston don't call at Watford J.

I wouldn't have thought it is valid to double-back between Willesden Jn and Euston.

But are you offered this itinerary on a booking site? If so, then I would obtain seat reservations, and that should ensure the ticket is honoured. If it's questioned, show the itinerary to the guard.

 

[dvboy]

I wouldn't have thought it is valid to double-back between Willesden Jn and Euston.

But are you offered this itinerary on a booking site? If so, then I would obtain seat reservations, and that should ensure the ticket is honoured. If it's questioned, show the itinerary to the guard.

Offered it in journey planning in WebTIS by specifying "Via Kensington Olympia), but tickets cannot be selected so I would assume not valid.

Have worked out my final option, should I fancy a really late one, is:
dep Brighton 0545
arr E Croydon 0632
dep E Croydon 0640
arr Clapham J 0700
dep Clapham J 0714
arr Willesden 0735
underground connection
dep Harrow &W 0802
arr Bham NS 1030
requires via Kensington Olympia ticket


As always thanks for your help Yorkie and others.

 

[34D]

Would the following be valid on a via Kensington Olympia ticket?

I'll let the experts postulate the exact answer, however even if you could convince that Willesden-Queens Park wasn't a double-back, I don't think you could convince that Queens Park-euston wasn't (due to the platforms on the AC slow lines there). I'm assuming that there has been a previous debate on routes Euston-Watford Jun; if so perhaps someone could link to it?

Edit - yorkie beaten me to it

 

[johnnycache]

Advance tickets (southern and london midland) £10 each way
These are a bit tricky to find as it is a fairly slow route..use the "select a route" facility on webTIS

 

[dvboy]

Advance tickets (southern and london midland) £10 each way
These are a bit tricky to find as it is a fairly slow route..use the "select a route" facility on webTIS

doesn't give me the flexibility i need unfortunately