Birmingham to Liverpool capacity drop

[frodshamfella]

Travelled to Birmingham today from Acton Bridge, the 07.59, was packed , only 4 carriages . Turns out the 07.30 Lime Street to Euston was cancelled, so even worse than it would be. I see my.return this afternoon at 15.34 also only 4 cars rather than the normal 8. Still no 30 min service, so I'd say the full.8 car trains is needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Travelled to Birmingham today from Acton Bridge, the 07.59, was packed , only 4 carriages . Turns out the 07.30 Lime Street to Euston was cancelled, so even worse than it would be. I see my.return this afternoon at 15.34 also only 4 cars rather than the normal 8. Still no 30 min service, so I'd say the full.8 car trains is needed.

It's a bit of a tide-over until the 5-car 730s are available I think? 5.730 will probably be about right for these, with the second TPH back in the busiest hours.

 

[Grumpy Git]

On the same service, any idea why the re-introduced xx.03 off Lime St runs semi-fast between Runcorn and Crewe?

Makes my regular 'split' to Derby 25% more expensive as no stop at Acton Bridge.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The 'regular' service has an horrendous 50+ change at Crewe.

 

[frodshamfella]

It's a bit of a tide-over until the 5-car 730s are available I think? 5.730 will probably be about right for these, with the second TPH back in the busiest hours.

When are these due ?? New Street shortly already full. No news on return of 30 min service ?

 

[Jamesrob637]

The second Liverpool to Birmingham runs at present but only in the peaks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When are these due ?? New Street shortly already full. No news on return of 30 min service ?

A year or two I think.

 

[frodshamfella]

Not a great idea to drop capacity, if these new new trains are not going to appear for a year or two. Christmas travel should be interesting.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Most hours of the week still have the same 8 car 350 worth of capacity, just split into the 2 services of 4 cars again.

Yes the 2nd service only call at Runcorn and South Parkway between Crewe and Liverpool, but technically speaking only 4 cars ever stop at Acton Bridge as its a UDS station. Still the same 1 tph for there regardless.

Once those who travel from Lime St and Runcorn notice the faster service, the stopper won't be have as bad as it's been this week.

Also, the stopper has been very full this week due to cancellations of other service rather than simply full due to the lack of an 8 car train

Not a great idea to drop capacity, if these new new trains are not going to appear for a year or two. Christmas travel should be interesting.

Not really much of a drop in capacity, just requires people to use both of he 2tph services at the major stations.

 

[frodshamfella]

Most hours of the week still have the same 8 car 350 worth of capacity, just split into the 2 services of 4 cars again.

Yes the 2nd service only call at Runcorn and South Parkway between Crewe and Liverpool, but technically speaking only 4 cars ever stop at Acton Bridge as its a UDS station. Still the same 1 tph for there regardless.

Once those who travel from Lime St and Runcorn notice the faster service, the stopper won't be have as bad as it's been this week.

Also, the stopper has been very full this week due to cancellations of other service rather than simply full due to the lack of an 8 car train


Not really much of a drop in capacity, just requires people to use both of he 2tph services at the major stations.

Yes the 7 30 Avanti ex Lime St was cancelled, so they all got on the next LNWR , which I got on, unfortunately it was only 4 carriages .

 

[peter166]

It wasn't a great start to the new timetable on Monday (11 Dec) when it was decimated with 8 services from Liverpool to Birmingham being cancelled.
0933, 13.33, 1433, 1533, 1608, 1733, 1833 and 2133
Note the 4 Hour gap in services between 1233 and 1633 !!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It wasn't a great start to the new timetable on Monday (11 Dec) when it was decimated with 8 services from Liverpool to Birmingham being cancelled.
0933, 13.33, 1433, 1533, 1608, 1733, 1833 and 2133
Note the 4 Hour gap in services between 1233 and 1633 !!

I worked the 1533 on Monday, the others are correct though. In fact, the 1533 ran the Crewe where is was cancelled but the train formed what would have been the 1608 service with those passengers still on board.

 

[peter166]

I worked the 1533 on Monday, the others are correct though. In fact, the 1533 ran the Crewe where is was cancelled but the train formed what would have been the 1608 service with those passengers still on board

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ok, but still hardly much of a service. There were apparently 9 cancellations the other way from Birmingham to Liverpool.

What was the cause of such a shambolic service? Told at Runcorn it was a lack of train crew but no reason given why?

I was supposed to be travelling on the 1351 from Runcorn to Wolverhampton but when it was clear that 2 consecutive trains had been cancelled I got just got back in the car and drove instead.

I got there about 1515. If I had waited for the train it would have been over 2 hours later !

 

[frodshamfella]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ok, but still hardly much of a service. There were apparently 9 cancellations the other way from Birmingham to Liverpool.

What was the cause of such a shambolic service? Told at Runcorn it was a lack of train crew but no reason given why?

I was supposed to be travelling on the 1351 from Runcorn to Wolverhampton but when it was clear that 2 consecutive trains had been cancelled I got just got back in the car and drove instead.

I got there about 1515. If I had waited for the train it would have been over 2 hours later !

Its very poor. Connections between Liverpool and Crewe are really pretty bad 1 ( sometimes 2 ) LNWR , and 1 Avanti...thats if they aren't cancelled. Liverpool - Runcorn not much better, just the extra TFW Chester service, which will finally return to hourly this month....ooops delayed again now Jan.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 11/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ok, but still hardly much of a service. There were apparently 9 cancellations the other way from Birmingham to Liverpool.

What was the cause of such a shambolic service? Told at Runcorn it was a lack of train crew but no reason given why?

I was supposed to be travelling on the 1351 from Runcorn to Wolverhampton but when it was clear that 2 consecutive trains had been cancelled I got just got back in the car and drove instead.

I got there about 1515. If I had waited for the train it would have been over 2 hours later !

Indeed it has been all week.

Train crew shortages on both side, but mostly New St drivers. Both Crewe and New St are at max annual leave (day and block week), Crewe also have 3 drivers in chain of care and the lack of crew wanting RDW means there are plenty of open jobs with spare turns already allocated at 7 day roster for the most part.

I don't see the service improving too much before New Year unless a bonus payment is introduced (highly unlikely)

 

[Kite159]

It will be interesting to see what some of those trains will be like on Saturday with the Saturday leisure crowds heading into Liverpool [and even towards Birmingham]. 2tph is slightly better from Crewe as it gives a bigger gap as the last timetable had both Liverpool trains departing Crewe within a few minutes of each other (Avanti first followed by the LNR).

 

[alex17595]

The stoppers are mostly booked for an 8 car on a Saturday

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It will be interesting to see what some of those trains will be like on Saturday with the Saturday leisure crowds heading into Liverpool [and even towards Birmingham]. 2tph is slightly better from Crewe as it gives a bigger gap as the last timetable had both Liverpool trains departing Crewe within a few minutes of each other (Avanti first followed by the LNR).

If train crew availability is as bad as the rest of the week then it's going to be awful

 

[Kite159]

The stoppers are mostly booked for an 8 car on a Saturday

Wouldn't it make more sense for the fasts to be booked for the 8 coach sets, just to avoid the need for Unit Deselect at the various stations which can only take 4 coaches? (Considering anybody from Crewe wanting Liverpool will probably board the Avanti a few minutes ahead of the stopper)

 

[frodshamfella]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the fasts to be booked for the 8 coach sets, just to avoid the need for Unit Deselect at the various stations which can only take 4 coaches? (Considering anybody from Crewe wanting Liverpool will probably board the Avanti a few minutes ahead of the stopper)

The only thing is Hartford and Winsford are quite busy stations. Saturdays are always busy heading into Liverpool.

 

[peter166]

It will be interesting to see what some of those trains will be like on Saturday with the Saturday leisure crowds heading into Liverpool [and even towards Birmingham]. 2tph is slightly better from Crewe as it gives a bigger gap as the last timetable had both Liverpool trains departing Crewe within a few minutes of each other (Avanti first followed by the

 

[AndrewE]

Train crew shortages on both side, but mostly New St drivers. Both Crewe and New St are at max annual leave (day and block week),

Does the "modern" railway have calendar leave years then? When I joined in 1974 your leave year was based on the anniversary of you joining. I couldn't believe the stupidity of the civil service when I moved to it, which stuck with calendar years, meaning that everyone pretty well had to "use it or lose it" in December.
If you wanted to chose the worst option for the railway with heavy seasonal patronage, that would be it!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Does the "modern" railway have calendar leave years then? When I joined in 1974 your leave year was based on the anniversary of you joining. I couldn't believe the stupidity of the civil service when I moved to it, which stuck with calendar years, meaning that everyone pretty well had to "use it or lose it" in December.
If you wanted to chose the worst option for the railway with heavy seasonal patronage, that would be it!

Yeah it's Jan-Dec for annual leave, but regardless of when your anniversary is, you'll always have the maximum leave being used in school holidays and in December. You could have it June-May and still have the same situation as now. (sans drivers on chain of care).

I never mentioned people using up before losing it as that doesn't happen at WMT, so long as you've attempted to use your floating days you can roll them over. I had to roll over 13 days last year no problem at all with rosters.

I should also state that there is 730 training and Colwich signal training being completed which compounds the lack of drivers wanting RDW.

 

[JW4]

It will be interesting to see what some of those trains will be like on Saturday with the Saturday leisure crowds heading into Liverpool [and even towards Birmingham]. 2tph is slightly better from Crewe as it gives a bigger gap as the last timetable had both Liverpool trains departing Crewe within a few minutes of each other (Avanti first followed by the LNR).

According to RTT
12:08 LIV —> BHM cancelled LIV —> CRE
15:08 cancelled
15:33 cancelled
17:08 cancelled
18:33 cancelled
19:08 & 19:33 cancelled LIV —> CRE
20:33 cancelled
22:17 non-stop to Crewe cancelled

At least they only had one cancellation in the first 9 hours

 

[Jamesrob637]

According to RTT
12:08 LIV —> BHM cancelled LIV —> CRE
15:08 cancelled
15:33 cancelled
17:08 cancelled
18:33 cancelled
19:08 & 19:33 cancelled LIV —> CRE
20:33 cancelled
22:17 non-stop to Crewe cancelled

At least they only had one cancellation in the first 9 hours

So morning was good, afternoon/evening less so.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I feel like maybe I should apologise for 2 of those cancelled services as I was meant to work them but an ear infection kept me off work for the last few days.

There does look to be less vacant turns at my depot this week, so fingers crossed it's a improvement on last week!