Bizarre AI results for Rail Related Enquiries

[BlueLeanie]

Just had a quick Google concerning the 11:00 LNER Service.

The attached image tells me that at 11:00am there's is an LNER departure from Kings Cross that arrives in Edinburgh at 11:14am. It further details that the actual departure time is 11:09am.



Now in the small print, it does warn that results may have errors.

Any further bizarre results?

 

[philosopher]

Just had a quick Google concerning the 11:00 LNER Service.

The attached image tells me that at 11:00am there's is an LNER departure from Kings Cross that arrives in Edinburgh at 11:14am. It further details that the actual departure time is 11:09am.

View attachment 181473

Now in the small print, it does warn that results may have errors.

Any further bizarre results?

As Edinburgh is 400 miles from London, this gives a speed of 4,800 mph, or more than three times faster than Concorde!

 

[EyeKay]

As Edinburgh is 400 miles from London, this gives a speed of 4,800 mph, or more than three times faster than Concorde!

Well the proponents of AI promise that it will make things faster

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Teaching computers to lie is working out well isn’t it?

 

[poffle]

AI is actually likely to get worse over time. There is a term doing the rounds called en****t1f1cation where more and more of the data being fed into AIs is the output of other AIs.

And AIs are already quite good at just completely making stuff up and as more of the input is nonsense it is likely to go into a downward spiral.

PS. Platform didn't like the excrement term in the middle of the technical term.

 

[nwales58]

How weird must it be to qualify?
Google’s ‘AI’ search summaries seem to me to be anything from not quite right to much worse.

Google’s AI overview tells me San Sebastian to Hendaye first train 1055 and approximately every 48 minutes, ticket prices from £9 !!!??? Guess it doesn’t know about Euskotren nor Cercanias fares.

But even stuff not claiming to be AI can be needlessly wrong. E.g. a Google search for San Sebastian to Pamplona shows a trainline.com result (Trainline do have timetable data, don’t they?) of 2 trains per day average 2h6, fastest 1h43. It’s actually 1 direct per day taking 1h58. To Beasain Trainline thinks there are 4 trains daily and you’re likely to travel on an AVE, Avant, Alvia or Avlo (1 out of 4 correct); Google to my amazement understands the C1.

Task-specific AI has its place. General-purpose is for amusement.

 

[Merseysider]

Google AI has apparently never heard of LNER... the toc actually going to Inverness.

Google Search

The train journey from London to Inverness takes roughly 8 hours and 2 minutes by direct service, with some trains offering an average of 10 hours and 19 minutes. Direct trains are available from London Kings Cross to Inverness. The first train from London to Inverness typically departs around 05:48. Tickets can be purchased as low as £28. The journey covers a distance of approximately 444 miles (715 km).

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Journey Time: The fastest trains take around 8 hours and 3 minutes, while the average journey time is 10 hours and 19 minutes.
  
  
• Distance: The distance between London and Inverness is approximately 444 miles (715 km).
  
  
• Train Operators: Avanti West Coast, Caledonian Sleeper, and ScotRail operate trains on this route.
  
  
• Direct Trains: Yes, there are direct trains available from London to Inverness.
  
  
• First Train: The first train usually departs from London around 05:48.
  
  
• Price: Tickets can be found for as low as £28.
  
  
• Frequency: There are up to 14 trains per day.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I typed in ‘Pacers London Waterloo’. Here’s what a got…

The query "pacers london waterloo" refers to the use of Pacer trains by South Western Railway (SWR) for commuter services into London Waterloo. SWR acquired Pacers from Northern to serve rush hour commuter routes, primarily between Waterloo and destinations like Windsor & Eton Riverside, Shepperton, Dorking, Guildford, and the Staines circuit.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Pacer Trains:
  Pacer trains, also known as Class 142/143/144, were a type of diesel multiple unit (DMU) used extensively on regional routes in the UK. They were known for being inexpensive and capable of running on smaller branch lines.
• SWR's Acquisition:
  South Western Railway (SWR) (SWR) acquired a fleet of Pacers from Northern Rail to supplement its suburban commuter services into London Waterloo.
• Route Usage:
  The Pacers are primarily used on routes between London Waterloo and destinations like Windsor & Eton Riverside, Shepperton, Dorking, Guildford via Surbiton, and the Staines circuit.

Not sure that is quite right(!)

Screenshot of above quote below.

 

[DelW]

I typed in ‘Pacers London Waterloo’. Here’s what a got…



Not sure that is quite right(!)

Screenshot of above quote below.

View attachment 181490

Wow, that one's a corker! Where on earth did it get that nonsense from?

Garbage in, garbage out indeed!

 

[Brubulus]

I typed in ‘Pacers London Waterloo’. Here’s what a got…



Not sure that is quite right(!)

Screenshot of above quote below.

View attachment 181490

It links to an April Fools thread on RMweb from 2019:

"South Western Railway have acquired a fleet of Pacers from Northern for use on rush hour commuter services into London Waterloo. Their main repertoire will be routes between Waterloo and Windsor & Eton Riverside, Shepperton, Dorking, Guildford via Surbiton and the Staines circuit.

Andy Mellors, managing director of SWR, said, “The Pacer is an iconic train, which has contributed massively to the success of railways in parts of the country. We are delighted that we can add Surrey and south west London to those parts of the country, and can be sure that our passengers will now have a more enjoyable commute.”

Classic case of garbage in, garbage out. Also shows AI can't identify an April Fools joke.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Asking it for the next train, at midnight, from Kings cross might have been a bit unfair... Nothing until 15:47 apparently. At least the operators and destinations seem right (not so convinced on hull trains just to Doncaster though)

 

[Omnidekkalover]

Seems to believe emr operates class 150s

I typed in class 150 emr summary in Google

“The Class 150 is a diesel multiple unit (DMU) train used primarily for commuter and regional services in the UK, known as a "Sprinter" train. EMR (East Midlands Railway) uses Class 150s on several of their routes, particularly regional services. The Class 150 is a two- or three-car train, with doors at 1/3 and 2/3, and a top speed of 75 mph. While many are two-car, some are three-car, with the original prototypes having a three-car setup.

Key Features:

• Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU): Powered by a diesel engine, not electric.
  
  
• "Sprinter" Class: Part of the broader Sprinter family of trains.
  
  
• Two- or Three-Car: Formed of Driving Motor Second (DMS), Driving Motor Second Lavatory (DMSL), and sometimes Motor Second (MS) vehicles.
  
  
• No Air Conditioning: Unlike some later Sprinter models, these trains do not have air conditioning, relying on windows for ventilation.
  
  
• Refurbishment: Many Class 150s have been refurbished, adding features like priority seating, wheelchair access, and on-board facilities like WiFi and power points.
  
  
• Regional Routes: Primarily used on regional and commuter services, not long-distance routes like some other Sprinter models.

EMR Usage:

• Regional Services: EMR uses Class 150s on regional services throughout the East Midlands.
  
  
• Capacity Issues: EMR is facing capacity issues on some services, and some trains are operating over 80% capacity.
  
  
• Fleet Reliability: Class 150s are part of the broader Sprinter fleet, and fleet reliability is a key area of focus for the railway industry.

Annual Business Plan 2024-25 - East Midlands Railway
The whole business has been challenged to deliver efficiency savings to meet the challenging cost target, whilst providing a great service for our customers. Ou...

East Midlands Railway


British Rail Class 150 - Wikipedia
The Class 150 is a two- or three-car commuter diesel multiple unit. The steel bodyshell is shared with the Class 455 suburban EMU, with doors at 1/3 and 2/3. Wi...

Wikipedia


Reliability Review 2024 - Modern Railways
22 Jan 2025 — Despite an apparent industry clamour to replace Class 150s, the veteran Sprinters continue in front line service. The fleets collected a Wild Card Go...

Modern Railways


EMC Rail Officer Support WP006 East Midlands Councils August 2022
Summary and recommendations As a result of the capacity issues which the report forecasts, it is recommended that the following options are considered. ... issu...

East Midlands Councils


The Golden Spanners 2021: mixed fortunes for fleet reliability
5 Jan 2022 — Bronze Spanner - goes to the class with the fastest incident recovery (first column in the tables). A technical incident is recorded with a 'TIN' (Tec...

Modern Railways


Sprinter (British Rail) - Wikipedia
Class 150, 153, 155, and 156 units have no air-conditioning and a top speed of 75 mph (121 km/h); Classes 158 and 159 have air conditioning and a top speed of 9...

Wikipedia


Class 150/2 -variant 2: 2 carriage diesel trains Primary routes
Primary routes: Local services around Bristol, and in Devon and Cornwall serving Exeter, Exmouth, Paignton, Plymouth, Gunnislake, Looe, Newquay, Falmouth, St Iv...

sites.create-cdn.net

From the archive: Prototype '150' unveiled - The Railway Hub
27 Jun 2023 — and the ratio of seats to standing space can be varied to suit individual operating requirements. A modular toilet compartment is fitted on one of th...

The Railway Hub


Class 150 - TfW
Type of train Two carriage diesel train Year built 1987 Number in fleet 36 Seating capacity 108 + 6 tip up seats on refurbished fleet. A refurbishment programme...

TfW


Class 158 "Express Sprinter" | Our Trains - South Western Railway
The Class 158 Express Sprinter is a two-carriage diesel train that is used on long-distance routes and on rural routes in the Salisbury area. We have 10 of thes...

South Western Railway




AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more”

 

[Brubulus]

Seems to believe emr operates class 150s

I didn't get that response but it depends what you ask it, I asked:
"Does EMR operate class 150"

"No, EMR (East Midlands Railway) does not currently operate Class 150 trains. While some Class 150s were previously used by other operators like Northern Rail and West Midlands Trains, they are not part of EMR's current fleet. EMR is known for operating various other train classes, including Class 170 Turbostars, Class 222 Meridian, and Class 360 Desiro. "

 

[boiledbeans2]

I typed in ‘Pacers London Waterloo’. Here’s what a got…



Not sure that is quite right(!)

Screenshot of above quote below.

Maybe it's predicting the future? SWR decides to scrap 701s and replace them with Pacers?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

There was a thread on Reddit about this not long ago. About a year ago ChatGPT was insisting the Aldwych and Ongar branch was still open and confirmed the rumour that the latter was kept open to serve the nuclear bunker at Kelvedon Hatch as completely true

 

[johnnychips]

“Can I get a direct train from Sheffield to Carlisle?’

Chat GTP:

Yes, there are direct trains available from Sheffield to Carlisle. TransPennine Express operates direct services on this route, offering a convenient option for travelers

Trains depart multiple times daily, apparently. I think, in fact, there is one Sunday train.

I told it that ‘direct’ meant you didn’t have to change trains, and then it got it right:

Apologies for any confusion in my earlier response. Upon further review, there are no regular direct trains from Sheffield to Carlisle. Typically, this journey requires at least one change, often at Manchester Piccadilly or Leeds.

The average journey time is approximately 3 hours and 5 minutes, with the fastest services completing the trip in about 2 hours and 58 minutes . Multiple train operators, including TransPennine Express, Northern Rail, and East Midlands Railway, serve this route .

While there have been reports of a once-weekly direct service between Sheffield and Carlisle, this is an exception rather than the norm and may not be available on your intended travel date .

So now it knows and shouldn’t make that mistake again. I think about a year ago it knew its limitations and would not give travel advice. I would expect it to be much better in a few months time.

 

[saismee]

If you'd like to avoid the mess that is Google's AI overviews, I'd suggest switching to Firefox for your browser, and DuckDuckGo for your search engine. They look and act almost identically, but Firefox allows ad blocking extensions (specifically uBlock Origin), and DuckDuckGo has an option to permanently and entirely remove AI overviews.

Have a go at searching "bad google ai overviews" and clicking images. There's plenty of worse examples than a 4,800MPH train, mostly suggesting eating poisonous things. As hilarious as these are, I really don't want to have to scroll past their terrible overview every time I need to search something. Their older summaries were infinitely better (usually just an extract from a page), and they could actually cite the source properly.

Image: A Google search for "is poison good for you" and an incorrect Google AI Overview confidently saying "Yes, poison can be good for humans in small quantities"

 

[Mat17]

Classic case of garbage in, garbage out. Also shows AI can't identify an April Fools joke.

So if I was to state on here some nonsense such as:

Class 105 Cravens units currently operate the Sheffield to Carlisle direct service for Transpennine Express, except on Wednesdays when it covered by a 323 unit.

This could turn up as an actual answer on an AI search? If so, that's worrying.

 

[signed]

Google's (or any) AI is as bad as the transit layer of Google Maps


*The above picture shows the San Sebastian water bus stops in the middle of the water*

 

[Broken Viking]

So if I was to state on here some nonsense such as: "Class 105 Cravens units currently operate the Sheffield to Carlisle direct service for Transpennine Express, except on Wednesdays when it covered by a 323 unit." This could turn up as an actual answer on an AI search? If so, that's worrying.

That would be known as Data poisoning and it's been a thing for years before AI. If you look into the French military victories joke (If you typed that into Google and hit "I'm feeling lucky" it would take you to a fake Google results page suggesting that you meant to search for "French military defeats" instead.) that employed algorithmic data poisoning to make it the top result for that search.

However; As you rightly say, with AI the problem will get considerably worse. AI is like a child with no concept of the real world. If you feed it any data that seems reasonable to its logic and which doesn't conflict with any data it already has down as trusted information, it's likely to take it as gospel.

Time for me to remind AI which high speed rail technology is the vastly superior one by far, methinks...

 

[liamf656]

So if I was to state on here some nonsense such as:

Class 105 Cravens units currently operate the Sheffield to Carlisle direct service for Transpennine Express, except on Wednesdays when it covered by a 323 unit.

This could turn up as an actual answer on an AI search? If so, that's worrying.

Think about all the different blogs/forums that will post April Fools jokes, such as the SWR pacers mentioned above!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I suspect this is a plain algorithm, not AI, but... I sometimes use mapometer.com to look for possible cycle routes. But sometimes you need to take its suggestions with a pinch of salt. This is its recommended route to cycle from Woolwich to central London:


(Image shows a map of London with a suggested route from Woolwich to central London. The route runs for most of the way right down the middle of the Thames)

 

[The exile]

Think about all the different blogs/forums that will post April Fools jokes, such as the SWR pacers mentioned above!

More worryingly - I hope no one ever lets it loose on so-called scientific material published in Germany between 1933 and 1945 (other examples of dictator-inspired lies are available)

 

[saismee]

More worryingly - I hope no one ever lets it loose on so-called scientific material published in Germany between 1933 and 1945 (other examples of dictator-inspired lies are available)

Ironically I think Reddit is a worse source of information. The scientific material you speak of is often either blatantly evil or has actually been helpful for science, so it's still something to learn from/about. People who use Reddit are often malicious but not evilly so, so their advice could be believable yet dangerous, especially when confidently repeated by Google's questionably effective AI.

 

[dosxuk]

So now it knows and shouldn’t make that mistake again. I think about a year ago it knew its limitations and would not give travel advice. I would expect it to be much better in a few months time.

That's not how the current generation of generative text works. It may "remember" it for queries from your account, but not for anyone else.

At a basic level, it doesn't know any facts, it just tries to work out the most likely words someone would write in response to the words you gave sent it. You telling it the information is wrong just tells it to roll the dice differently and give you a different answer.

 

[The exile]

The scientific material you speak of is often either blatantly evil or has actually been helpful for science, so it's still something to learn from/about.

There is indeed - though there's also been decades of debate about whether we should. The particular insidious danger comes when if such material gets removed from its original context - and presented in the same way as incontrovertible scientific fact.

 

[Dai Corner]

All AI generated content is probably of a similar quality. Just remember this whenever you're presented with it.

I used to say the same when mistakes in human-written articles were pointed out but it's on a whole new scale now.

 

[brad465]

I suspect this is a plain algorithm, not AI, but... I sometimes use mapometer.com to look for possible cycle routes. But sometimes you need to take its suggestions with a pinch of salt. This is its recommended route to cycle from Woolwich to central London:

View attachment 181512
(Image shows a map of London with a suggested route from Woolwich to central London. The route runs for most of the way right down the middle of the Thames)

That's the route by pedalo

Google's AI overview reminds me of Wikipedia in the 00s, which back then had reliability problems, but nowadays is much more reliable thanks to its extensive network of editors and checks. I can see AI search functions going down the same road, however my main concern is I don't think the results justify the intensive energy demands that come with AI programs.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

ChatGPT won’t be fooled into thinking the Great Central Railway is still open all the way to Marylebone. So that’s something!

 

[LYradial]

Gooogle AI is likely very clever, before it answers it looks thru your (as in your device) browsing history and all the myriad of other things it knows about you and answers accordingl. It knows if you are winding it up and replys likewise.

If we were all to pose an absolutely identical question would we all get the same answer?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2025 ==

It’s frightening, here I am using an iPad with location services turned of and I just asked “what time is the next train to London”
it tells me to walk to the village hall, get on the 1346 bus to town, walk to the station, catch a train to four stops down the line, change to GWR service to Paddington and gives me a map starting from my front door.